Discussion/Off-Topic Post #2

[ddk_mod]

All Rounds & Other Useful Links | Rules | Mod Post | Writing Challenges | Fills: Completed & WIPs

For things that are neither prompts nor questions for the mod. Talk about the show, ask for help finding lost prompts, organise fic fests or whatever else you want. Discuss away!

Anon commenting is not mandatory for this post. Playing nice is always mandatory.

For the sake of managing spoilers, please use the Defenders-only discussion post for anything Defenders-related. Thank you!

Comments

i love my stupid, sweet, protective child

[(Anonymous)]

i love, love, loved that matt + fisk prison scene but oh boy!! matt's knee-jerk reaction to clear foggy of any part in fisk's downfall was very touching and very stupid. matt gave away his achilles heel and i am absolutely terrified about what this might mean for foggy next season :-(

Re: i love my stupid, sweet, protective child

[(Anonymous)]

It's like Matt showing hands in their conversation over the walkie-talkie. He's a baby compared to Fisk, all these machinations just fly right over his head.

[(Anonymous)]

I try not to nitpick, but today I'm failing. What's with Matt's vanishing cowl whenever he takes his helmet?

[(Anonymous)]

I guess he just grabs it and it comes off with the helmet? I always end up doing this with my trousers and socks.

Shaky Final Act

[(Anonymous)]

As much as I loved the show, I feel like the final act kind of fell apart a bit. And it was for one specific reason, a reason that the movie side of the MCU has already been tripped up by several times: putting more focus on setting up future projects than resolving current story arcs.

The first act was all Punisher, the second act was Elektra taking over the action side while we got to see Frank humanised. And that was awesome, especially the way it showed Matt being pulled between Daredevil and Nelson & Murdock. But in the final act, the two stories (Punisher and Elektra) never really got tied together in a satisfying way. They never got resolved in a satisfying way: the Hand remained some weird shadowy ninja cult with no fully explained motive beyond ~Black Sky is super dangerous for some reason~; I'm still not 100% sure whether the show wanted us to think the Colonel was Blacksmith or if we were supposed to think there was someone higher up the chain; Foggy and Karen and Matt imploded and we didn't get an emotionally satisfying end to their partnership, it all just fizzled out when season one was built so heavily around it. Even smaller plot threads were just abandoned, from Matt's hearing loss being just forgotten about, to not knowing what happened to that poor dog!

I get that they're setting up Elektra as being with the Hand. I get that they're setting up Frank having his own show. I get that things are clearly when you've read the right comics. But I wish they'd been a little neater with the plot, especially if they knew they were heading for such a downbeat ending. I didn't really mind Jessica Jones setting up the plot for its future seasons (mostly because I was just elated JJ would be getting another season) but this went beyond 'hinting future plotlines' and was more 'asking fifty more questions than we're going to answer'. Which is a shame.

Re: Shaky Final Act

[(Anonymous)]

OP here

Urgh, I meant "I get that things are clearer when you've read the right comics"

Also, I remembered another thing about the ending that bothered me: Matt throws Nobu off a skyscraper. Sure, Nobu got up again, but Matt wasn't clear on how Nobu was alive to begin with, so he wouldn't have been able to know for sure that Nobu would shake that fall off. So Matt basically pulled a fatal finishing move in a fight, and we didn't get to see any kind of fallout from that. Considering how the show has continually made a point of pushing Matt up against the 'should you kill your enemies' line and having him choose not to cross it, that seems like a pretty major development to just ignore.

Foggy and Matt

[(Anonymous)]

My biggest complaint is that season 2 didn't give me a reason to believe they are best friends. In season 1 there was episode 10, which was imperfect but at least gave us some reasons to believe that these two weren't just two people stuck together for some reason. But this season? All I've seen has been Foggy running around roofs, Matt distancing himself to the point of being a bad lawyer, and a general sense of "wow, these two human beings really didn't have better friends to choose from during law school?" I'm not your classic hardcore comics-are-better fanatic. I read DD, some things I like, some I hate or skip because I don't care about them. But the one constant in the comics has always been how deeply these two care about each other, while in the tv series they can barely tolerate each other. Even Brett and Foggy have a better relationship.

Re: Foggy and Matt

[(Anonymous)]

I think this is exactly what they wanted to do with them this season.

Make the audience feel like Matt and Foggy are done. Not everyone is a comic reader, they don't know how great friends they really are. Of course they've been trough a lot but the constant was that Foggy has always been in Matt's life.

I bet in the comics there had been many times where N&M were no more but they always found a way to go back and I think that's what we are gonna see for S3 but first we gonna se see how Matt works o his own and with The Defenders before we get to see how Nelson, Murdock and even Page will fix things.

It's inetresting what they did this season because they show us that Foggy and Matt are not perfect, they want diffenrent things and none of hem it's at fault for wanting something different.

Foggy wanted Matt and only Matt, his friend, not DD. Matt wanted for Foggy to understand that he can't stop doing what he does and he felt like it was better to be apart than miserable together.

What did you LOVE about Season 2?

[(Anonymous)]

Let's spread some positivity up in this ish! (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧

Re: What did you LOVE about Season 2?

[(Anonymous)]

I really loved DA Reyes and ADA Tower. They were such amazing characters! :-D

Also Frank was a pleasant surprise? And the fact that Matt, Foggy and Karen (especially Karen??) were advocating for him??? I was not expecting that. <3

And I uh... may have loved the scene where Fisk manhandles Matt a little too much. ^^;

[(Anonymous)]

Guys what happened to Karen's brother I feel like this was vaguely explained/implied in that scene at the paper (when she started crying over the news article--is it that her little brother died in a shooting and she wasn't able to save him?)
I need to know this, guys. I have to. If there's an explanation, I need it, I can't believe I missed this and I haven't gotten the chance to rewatch ;-;

[(Anonymous)]

I think he died in a car accident, anon.

I think I read that in a fanfic...

[(Anonymous)]

So there was a lot of excellent fic produced in the months following season 1. Was there anything you saw in season 2 that you that made you think of something you read/wrote in a fic?

Re: I think I read that in a fanfic...

[(Anonymous)]

Of Course anon.
The momment Foggy went looking for Mat on rooftops was my favorite I read that in a fic momment-

Also when Matt lost his hearing and how desspair he was in those few minutes.

Foggy getting a Foggy bear was also one.

Elektra Appreciation Post

[(Anonymous)]

What were some of your favourite Elektra scenes/lines, etc? :-D

Re: Elektra Appreciation Post

[(Anonymous)]

I loved the sense of fun she bought to everything. The diner scene with the straw slurping and the pie, the party with the fake drunk routine, the flashback to Roscoe's house and the raiding of the fridge. yeah, she's destructive and fucked-up, but she made damn good TV and I can see why that darkness in Matt is drawn to her.

Matt Appreciation Post

[(Anonymous)]

Because you can't mask that ass. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Re: Matt Appreciation Post

[(Anonymous)]

He was a lot funnier this season, imo.

"Come on, Jazz Hands." ahaha

Brainstorm - Matt/Foggy Fix-It Scenarios

[(Anonymous)]

So if you were going to Fix the Matt-Foggy estrangement, how would you do it? What does that look like? What would need to happen? How do you get Matt and Foggy to the point where it's possible?

(I mean, we know the show is probably going to take some steps toward that in S3, but I kinda want to know how we'd do it.)

Re: Brainstorm - Matt/Foggy Fix-It Scenarios

[(Anonymous)]

I like to imagine it involves a lot of mutual pining, combined with "He doesn't want me in his life anymore" from both sides. >D

How's he able to keep up with us? He's not even running!

[(Anonymous)]

Hahaha, ngl, the scene of Frank "chasing" after Karen and Grotto through the hospital at a walking pace reminded me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2kCHFreIL0

Re: How's he able to keep up with us? He's not even running!

[(Anonymous)]

Pfffftahahahahaha!

A different timeline question [Jessica Jones spoilers]

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, didn't Lawyer Trinity die toward the end of Jessica Jones? When she showed up to offer Foggy a job, I started trying to figure out when JJ and DD S2 line up with respect to timeline. JJ is later than DD S2?

This gets into the "it's the biggest heatwave ever" in episode 1, which to me implies August.

Thoughts?

Re: A different timeline question [Jessica Jones spoilers]

[(Anonymous)]

Nope, Hogarth survived JJ. Her wife didn't, and the girlfriend was in custody.

Matt's new suit

[(Anonymous)]

Love it? Hate it?

Personally, I will forever mourn the black PJs and the amazing gifsets from last season because of it. I don't even care that the outfit was impractical, his ass looked great in every shot and you could actually see his amazing jawline.

(Also, I find he's slower in the new suit? The range of movement isn't good)

Re: Matt's new suit

[(Anonymous)]

I love it. Especially the horns, they make me so happy.

His ass still looks great in the new suit too. 10/10 imo

Full Opinion

[(Anonymous)]

My family and I watched it in 13 hours, in one day, straight. There's only 4 things we agree on-

1. Foggy deserves more.
2. Frank needs a hug and a billion doggy friends.
3. OMG MATT! FOGGY NEEDS YOU! QUIT CHASING CRAZY! NEVER put your dick in crazy!
4. Karen needs to chill.

I still hate Stick, but I like him more now compared to the unhealthy thing between Elektra and Matt. Seriously. I would take a thousand years of Stick's manipulation over Elektra.

I felt like Foggy was the only hero here... maybe Marci. Hell, I'm a Foggy/Matt shipper but after this season, Foggy deserves more attention and complete love, and obvi Matt can't offer that.

Still hate Fisk.

I like the reporter guy, pretty cool now. Claire deserves better. Matt needs to step up his game.

Is Blade gonna show up? I think Blade shows up when the weird vampire zombies show up...

Can't wait for Season 3, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist!

The Fratt Fight in ep 2

[(Anonymous)]

That scene when Foggy is looking down into the room and he realises Frank and Matt are both gone, there's a huge smear of blood on the floor. Did it look like a handprint to anyone else? Was it supposed to look like a bloody handprint with outstretched fingers that was dragged away?

Re: The Fratt Fight in ep 2

[(Anonymous)]

i think it was supposed to be a body print. I geuss Matt was bleeding when Frank took him

I finished season two

[(Anonymous)]

And this is my reaction to teh epopel that works in Daredevil

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Leslie-Knope-Go-To-The-Corner-And-Think-About-What-Youve-Done-Gif.gif

That finale was bittersweet. Everyone is a mess and trying to move on and The Hand is still a player. Damn boy!

This season is giving me so many feels.

I really should not be this invested in a tv show.

HELP!

Foggy's position post-s2

[(Anonymous)]

I wonder - why do people think that Foggy immediately became a name partner at HCB when Jeri employed him? It makes no sense. He has virtually no experience, he's a promising talent but even Marci has seniority... Jeri did mention HCB&N, but it seemed more like a teaser of a potential prosperous future if Foggy accepted her offer rather than "you're basically a no one in this world but you'll be my other name partner".

Real world law firm rules say that Foggy's an associate. Maybe a junior partner if we're being generous. But name partner? No way. Not yet.

So, what's up with that?

Re: Foggy's position post-s2

[(Anonymous)]

He was explicitly offered a partnership!

"It gets better. How does "Hogarth, Chao, Benowitz and Nelson" sound?"

Why would Karen think that Matt was cheating when she walked in on Elektra in bed?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm finally getting around to watching this scene for a second time and it is completely baffling to me. She doesn't react at all (literally at all) to the strange, rude elderly blind man that she's never met and I'm pretty darn sure Matt has never talked to her about and is steady/composed, but the second she walks in on Matt and Elektra - both looking abjectly miserable and fully dressed, one in bed tucked under the covers like she's ill, one standing up not so much as holding her hand - and immediately her voice gets quavery and she acts like she's on the verge of breaking down in some way, then she immediately bails. Later when Matt attempts to talk to her about what she saw she more or less accuses him of sleeping with a "whole harem of women." When she relayed the news to Foggy she said "there was a a woman there, in his bed," which is absolutely true, but why the heck would she cast the situation specifically in that light (which is clearly how Foggy took it)?

I barely noticed how out of place her reaction was the first time I watched, but now that I'm revisiting the explicitly chaste initial scene that she was ushered into by Stick it's really confusing the way it played out.

Re: Why would Karen think that Matt was cheating when she walked in on Elektra in bed?

[(Anonymous)]

For the relationship drama, probably?

I'm not sure she actually did think Matt was cheating. The "whole harem of women" line sounded like something she found as believable as alcoholism and fight club, i.e. not very.

Also, it is a non-sexual scene that she walked into (considering everyone was clothed, Elektra looked half-dead and ill, and Stick was sitting around in the living room being a grump) but it's still very intimate. I mean, Elektra's in his bed - not a hospital, not the couch, and not her own house. I can't think of many normal circumstances where that would happen. So, big and incredibly weird stuff was happening in Matt's life, with people Matt was obviously extremely close to, but he never told Karen or Foggy about a word of it? Karen already knew he had secrets, but seeing that, it would've looked like a whole other double life - a lot more than just normal "secrets".

Did Frank tell Matt he knew he was Daredevil?

[(Anonymous)]

In the hospital scene, the first thing Frank says to Matt is "I know who you are..."

(pause, meaningful look)

"... you protect shitbags.)

See, Karen and Foggy would assume that Frank only knows they're defense attorneys, and not that they have a rep for defending the innocent. So they'd probably figure his comment was just about the fact that they're defense lawyers.

But what if that comment was specifically for Matt. Frank recognized him right away and was letting Matt know it. (And we all know that's Frank opinion of Daredevil - he protects the shitbags that Frank thinks should be killed.)

Re: Did Frank tell Matt he knew he was Daredevil?

[(Anonymous)]

Ooooooh~~~ I like the way you think, anon!

Karen's Backstory?

[(Anonymous)]

So what exactly was Karen's backstory. I only managed to catch the headline of the news article, something about a 16 year old dying in a car crash??? Did we get any mpore info than that?

Re: Karen's Backstory?

[(Anonymous)]

Only the name of the teen, Kevin Paxton Page, which makes the kid Karen's brother.

(frozen comment) What next for Karen?

[(Anonymous)]

After the improbable story line of Karen's career projection in season 2, do we have any guesses what happens in season 3? I'm guessing she visits Foggy in hospital, is seen putting a plaster on his finger and is immediately asked to head up the Cancer ward or something.

(frozen comment) Re: What next for Karen?

[(Anonymous)]

oh yay, you hate karen, good for you... *slow clap*

Another error, or am I remembering wrong?

[(Anonymous)]

I thought I remembered that in episode 10 of season 1, when the avocados are being drunk and cute, Foggy asks Matt something like "whatever happened to that greek girl you were dating?"

But in season 2 Foggy goes off about how Matt was a complete wreck after the breakup and almost flunked out of school...

I can't imagine he'd forget something that catastrophic even while drunk.

Or am I remembering season 2 wrong? (I binge watched, so I could've made the whole thing up, I guess.)

Re: Another error, or am I remembering wrong?

[(Anonymous)]

No, Foggy goes off about how Matt was a complete wreck WHEN he was dating Elektra. He specifically says that ELEKTRA - that dating her - was the reason Matt almost failed a semester.

Matt got better after she left, if only because she wasn't there to inspire his recklessness.

And, as we know from s2, she left after the Roscoe Sweeney affair and never came back. So it's plausible that Foggy would get drunk - and drunk!brave enough to mention that Devil Ex who turned Matt into a hot mess for a brief time - and ask about what happened to her. There's no way Matt ever told him the truth, because the truth boils down to "Elektra wanted me to kill a man, I refused, she was disappointed and left".

Do you think Brett suspects that Foggy knows DD or that is Matt?

[(Anonymous)]

It struck me that Breet might be suspicious of his two lawyers friends. I mean when anything DD involve, they are there.

Brett called Foggy when he got beat up ebcause he needed a lawyer and moments laters DD shows up.

Karen is always involve when something DD related happens (bad luck Karen?) and Foggy went with the cops when DD was fighthing the ninjas on the roof when only cops where there.

If that doesn't make Brett suspicious i dont know what will.

Also.. Matt, your DD voice is the same, man. Brett knows you.

Re: Do you think Brett suspects that Foggy knows DD or that is Matt?

[(Anonymous)]

I'm 100% sure Brett knows. He might not know Matt as well as Foggy does, but he's known Matt for almost six years and he'd have to be a very bad cop not to recognize Matt's voice. Hell, not only the voice, but also Matt's speech pattern.

Brett knows.

[(Anonymous)]

I love Karen so much, but god her final piece of the season about how ~everybody's a hero~ was terrible.

There's no way anyone is going to publish that!!!

[(Anonymous)]

SAME. I loved her this season but I couldn't help but laugh at that part. It felt like it was there as a placeholder in the script and they never got around to fixing it?? Idk maybe it was based on something from the comics but either way it was BAD

Franks mental health

[(Anonymous)]

He said he doesn't have PTSD but I doubt that? I'm fairly certain he does in the comics at least, even if they've never explicitly stated it. I feel like when he said it was an 'insult' to people who have it, it was because he doesn't consider himself to truly be a person anymore?? Or he's just in denial ? Or was it just the truth and he's perfectly healthy?

Re: Franks mental health

[(Anonymous)]

I think he definitely had PTSD. You don't witness a sudden traumatic death the way he did and NOT have it.

What he objected to, I think, was tarnishing the reputations of other soldiers with PTSD by using it as an "excuse" for what he did.