daredevilkink | Daredevil Prompt Post #11

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Daredevil Prompt Post #11

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Sadly I think Matt would be most likely to attempt suicide by criminal, which wouldn't be recognised as an attempt by Foggy, Karen or Claire - more same old stuff, he hasn't changed.

Frank though, would probably see the difference enough to at least question.

Melvin could be another good candidate for noticing in that case.

Yes, Melvin would be a good candidate for noticing too. Also maybe Brett if you ignore what I wrote below about Matt in civvies.

I am about to start rambling but this has me interested as a character study and I am questioning why I automatically thought that the three closest to Matt wouldn't recognise it while others would.

Foggy sees Matt as DD as Matt being reckless. He is unlikely to notice any change in behaviour because he already does not like that behaviour full stop. So yeah, any change would just be more of the same.

Claire I think already recognises that Matt's mental health is not the greatest so her level of concern would not necessarily rise unless she actually witnessed him just stopping fighting. It would have to be something very out of character for Matt for her to think that this is something on top of what he already does.

Karen I may have been unfair to. She actually might be the one to recognise that there is something different. She has up close seen him fight and does not seem to have spotted the mess that is Matt in the way that Claire has. She (although we don't know what happens when Matt tells her) seems to idolise Matt, even when he fucks everything up she doesn't really see it as being a problem with him but more that he has hurt her, if that makes sense. She thinks that he is a put together guy and she thinks that DD is a hero. So when the two fit together she may be more able to pick the seams than either Claire or Foggy.

Foggy sees the light side, with problems but smart and capable until he finds out about DD and cannot reconcile the two. Claire sees the dark side, with major problems, smart and capable but going to get himself killed. Karen may be the one of the three to be able to recognise when things are different or she may have the same reconciliation problems as Foggy, but Karen is more light and dark herself so I don't think she would be as averse to the idea of Matt being DD.

Long and rambly and not explaining myself right. Also probably hijacking the prompt. sorry.

Why does my heart melt whenever someone mentions him with Matt/DD? Brilliant idea

SA - I don't imagine he would do this in the Daredevil get up either. Just normal Matt Murdock doing something to get himself killed; he could almost convince himself it wasn't an attempt. Foggy would probably be concerned but just in the "My best friend could be killed any night" way and maybe that the fact Matt is doing something stupidly heroic in civvies that Matt is so far gone as Daredevil that there's no Matt left anymore. Or it may help him see that DD is Matt is DD and be a good thing.

Yea, I don't think he'd do it in DD get up because keeping the secret is super important for not getting Foggy into a shit storm, so I think it would be as Matt Murdock. Matt canon has depression in the comics, right? To me, that seems like suicide isn't an unreasonable thing. I don't think being DD is enough to keep him going after having, like, friends and love in his life.

He does have depression as far as I know. Suicide isn't an unreasonable thing for any character, let alone Matt Murdock (you can have depression without contemplating suicide, but anyone is capable of feeling low enough to commit suicide given life events, propensity to depression, etc.) To me the key thing is the method and this is where I am going into specifics so probable triggers.

I don't see Matt as a pills or hanging guy or even the type to slash his wrists. It strikes me that if Matt were going to reach the conclusion that suicide is the answer he would do it with brutal efficiency - no second chances.

I also see Matt as being very proud and this pride could go in two directions. The first direction is that he would not want his friends to know that this is the choice he had made, he could even dress it up as protecting them/ not wanting them to blame themselves. The second way that pride could go is "Look! I can do this right!"

I mainly think though that it would not be a conscious decision with Matt. He may think that the world is better off without him in it and he may become more reckless because of this, either to prove to himself he is worth something or because he genuinely no longer cares about himself. He may even plan out different methods, but even disregarding his Catholicism, I don't think he would do it without third party involvement, be it criminals or police.

I think he would see it as being far better to go out like his Dad, one last grand sacrifice knowing it would lead to his death.

*** Conscious decision was wrong phrasing - I think that Matt would deny the suicide element even while acknowledging that he doesn't want to live.

Yea, I get that. I mean, I know (conceptually) depression and suicide aren't always together, but they always have been for me, so I forget, and that kind of informs my take on this, so I know I could EASILY be projecting.

I def. don't see Matt as a pills or hanging guy because they're too "soft" (I DON'T ACTUALLY THINK THIS ALL SUICIDE IS BAD AND SCARY) and I definitely think there would be a pride element, but I don't think slitting his wrists is out of the question. He likes pain in his own way and it would be a way to very manually kill himself (it can be rather efficient). I don't see him as actually letting himself die in "accident" type situations because of the impact it could have on others. Jumping/falling, getting hit by a car/train, etc. all involve other people experiencing the event, which would be traumatic and damaging to these people. This differs from hurting the people around him because, mostly, I think he's at the point that he thinks they won't care/be glad he's gone. On the other hand, forcing a car to hit you means that driver has to live with hitting you, you know? Maybe this makes sense? The Catholicism would definitely be a complication, but I feel like he might rationalize with moral maths that say he's saved so many lives that taking his still leaves him in the positive on the life scale. In addition, the Church seems to have a sense that psychological issues mean that you can't actively really know what you're doing and therefore suicide isn't a mortal sin.

I've clearly never thought about suicide, ever. (sorry for the necessary self deprecation)

I'm probably projecting too, don't worry. I have/(had hopefully) endogenous depression and while I can remember in my lowest periods thinking of ways I could do it, I always thought it would be easier if someone else would just do it for me (easier for friends, family, the landlord) and easier for me because while I knew I was at that point, I felt guilty about it and if someone else was responsible then that would be one thing I didn't have to feel guilty about.

(I do not and have not ever thought that suicide is something to which blame can be assigned but guilt does not always, especially for a depressive, mean that someone has blamed. It's funny the way the brain works, whenever Matt on show said "that's the Catholicism" regarding guilt, etc., I'd think, "Well, I'm not Catholic but it sounds a whole hell of a lot like depression to me.")

Also yes, I don't see him doing anything that will affect bystanders, but picking a fight and making sure he doesn't win or some kind of suicide by cop (especially if a grand gesture of giving the city back to the police were involved, if only in his own head) is something I think would fit - like handing the Punisher arrest to Brett but ... much more.

I think he probably does think that Foggy and Karen either won't care or will at least be better off, but with the myriad ways Matt could kill himself with plausible deniability that that was even his intent, I think he may even want to give Foggy a "win". "You said it would kill me, and you were right."

There has been a couple of occasions writing this that I've skirted dangerously close to the "Suicide is selfish" ridiculousness. That is not something I believe, but I could well see Matt believing it, not of other people necessarily but of himself. But that is maybe projecting again, I never think of other people that way, but when it came to me, I could not stop thinking about how bad other people would feel even though I was convinced they hated me, lol. As I said, depression and sense-making do not necessarily go hand in hand.

That's very true; suicide by police brutality would be a total Matt move... And depression totally distorts everything, so I can see Matt buying into a lot of the rhetoric.

Agreed on all points--though the logistics of suicide by cop (though I completely agree with the reasoning; I think Matt would think of it that way) would mean it would be difficult to avoid potential repercussions for Foggy and Karen, as Matt's identity would be revealed. (Or people re-opening every case he's ever had a hand in.)
He could possibly make a sacrifice play as a civilian, though that would probably have to be circumstantial. Someone else pointed out the religious issues involved in Matt consciously thinking of suicide, and if he's deliberately going out and picking fights as a civilian that kind of breaks even the front he might have going internally that he's not suicidal.
...and can I say how happy it makes me to hear other fans really thinking these kind of themes through with kindness and sensitivity? --especially while dealing with my own depression, and as someone who was previously suicidal and never dealt with it. Fandom as therapy, man. <3

This will maybe get past the hurt part and into comfort some time soon...

Also on AO3: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6715930

---

“No, no, no, no… Matty what have you done?”

Foggy had gotten no response when he had pounded on the door, his hands shaking so hard he dropped the spare key twice before unlocking the door.

That’s when it hits him. He may not have Matt’s super sense of smell, but the coppery tang of blood is overwhelming. Foggy’s heart tries to leap out of his chest as he races into Matt’s apartment, praying he wasn’t too late.

“Dear God, dear God, fuck…”

Matt’s not in the living room or kitchen and isn’t responding to Foggy’s frantic cries for him. The search through Matt’s tiny apartment doesn’t take long and Foggy finds Matt in a pool of his own blood on those silk sheets he loved.

“Jesus, fuck, Matty!” Foggy could feel tears welling up as the exclamation leaked out, thinking of how Matt should scold him with a quiet, “Language,” and not be lying motionless in an ever growing puddle of blood.

To make things worse, Matt’s lips are turned up in a serene smile, his crucifix clutched tightly in his hand and his glasses set carefully on his bedside table.

It’s only a split second, but to Foggy time stops as he takes in the deep gashes in Matt’s wrists surrounded by a minefield of scabs and scars. How long had this been going on? He sees how pale Matt’s face has gotten, somehow even lighter than he normally was.

A primal cry rips from his throat as he pulls out his cellphone.

“9-1-1, what’s your emergency?”

Foggy realizes he’s incoherently sobbing and he has to stop if Matt has any chance of… no, can’t think of that if he wants to stop horrible wailing coming out of him.

“My friend, he slit his wrists, he tried to kill himself,” Foggy manages to get out before shouting Matt’s address for the second time today. Then he pulls Matt’s limp body into his arms.

The operator tries to get useful information out of Foggy after that, but he has nothing to offer. He has no idea how long ago Matt slit his wrists, but he knows that Matt’s losing blood quickly and he feels a little cold and they need to hurry, now! Foggy grabs the pillowcases to apply pressure to his wrists hoping to staunch the bleeding a little, give his best friend a better chance. It’s as he’s pushing down on Matt’s wrists so hard he’s worried they’ll break that Foggy notices the little scrap of paper resting beside Matt’s hand, soaked in blood. The note is short, in Matt’s terrible handwriting, and Foggy can make it out through the blood.

Foggy – I’m sorry for everything I did to you and Karen. Tell her I’m sorry for me. You deserve so much more and now you’re free of me. I’m sorry and I love you.

Foggy reads it again and again until his tears are too thick to see through. Then he collapses onto Matt and listens to his thin, stuttering heartbeat.

When the EMTs arrive just a few minutes later Foggy is unaware of their presence and they have to pry him away from Matt.

Oh this is heartbreaking.

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Daredevil Prompt Post #11

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life (Discussion of specifics, possible triggers)

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life (Discussion of specifics, possible triggers)

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life (Discussion of specifics, possible triggers)

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life (Discussion of specifics, possible triggers)

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life (Discussion of specifics, possible triggers)

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life (Discussion of specifics, possible triggers)

Re: Gen, Matt tries to take his life (Discussion of specifics, possible triggers)

Fill: leave me out with the waste (this is not what I do) 3/?

Re: Fill: leave me out with the waste (this is not what I do) 3/?