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Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

And then it kept getting prompted and people kept discussing it. You doesn't need a list of full blown fics to point out that hey, here's an idea that people keep digging into. (Like the slave fic. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same handful of people, tbh.)

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Any time someone makes reference to how they believe so few people in fandom are actually interested in X, they're trying to dismiss the value of X. It doesn't matter if 2 or 2k people are here to discuss a thing, please stop low-key kink shaming.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

It matters when the topic of conversation is trends and the overall popularity of certain subjects. Pointing out that only a relatively few number of people prefer a Thing but happen to have loud 'voices' about it is absolutely valid. That's not kinkshaming.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Ehh, I don't think kinkshaming is the right word. It's not kinkshaming to say that x kink is factually not that common.

However I am getting annoyed with people trying to dismiss writers and their fans by saying/implying they're just a small group of loud outsiders. I've seen a fair few people (lbr)complaining about prompts they don't like (ESPECIALLY the slavery threads lately) and so many people defending the meme like "oh no, that's that weird group, we aren't like that lol". Which, I imagine, would fucking suck to read if you were part of that group.

We're all part of the same fandom space and we're all just trying to have fun. There are no rules being broken here just because someone is having more fun than you about something you don't enioy. And if you don't want to read someone's work, scroll. Or, you know, start a conversation about what *you're* interested in, instead. Do something productive instead of trying to squash other people's fun.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

^ THIS, exactly. It's super obvious when someone says 'it's only a few people' they're just grinding on that (supposedly insignificant) group because they don't like it. Like that's cool, if it's not your thing then move along. Please talk up what you like, be productive instead of... *stop liking what I don't like gif*

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, time for an example.

Swiggity_swydra_fuck_hydra. They're one of the slavefic authors and they've just started crossposting their work onto AO3 after working on their fic for a few months on the meme.

As of this morning, that one fic has clocked in at 89k words. 89k words! That is nuts. (by which I mean, 'dude, IMPRESSIVE, wow'.)

But follow me now - that means that there has been nearly ninety thousand words on the kinkmeme from only one author. That's the kind of off-balance thing people are pointing out. They're saying, 'yeah, there's a lot of slavefic on the meme right now but it's only being written by a few people' because it's true.

89k! Put that in perspective - most fics don't break 1k, even fewer get up to 5k. Just looking at the volume of work being done, that means it looks like there's anywhere between 18 to 90 people creating content on the meme. But there's not. It's one person who is just tearing it up right now. (to be absolutely clear, that was a compliment.)

And that's only one of the slavefic WIPs running right now. It doesn't include the other fics, or the comments on each chapter as they come out. For someone looking at the meme from the outside (and the inside, tbh) it looks like an army of slavefic fans have happily gathered here and are grinding out content like a well oiled machine. But it's not an army. It's a few very prolific writers and the fans who love what they're doing. And that's not a bad thing! Keep doing your thing!

But it's also not a bad thing to point out that hey, the numbers are a bit skewed here.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

DA, also slavery-AU filler - true, doesn't *have* to be a bad thing to point out that the slave!fills are pretty disproportional to the other fills in both length, as well as consistency and frequency of updates. But, hm, what is...the point, I guess, I'm wondering? Like, if someone who points this imbalance out does so because they'd like to read something else other than Matt in a collar being treated to nice things (why would you ever want to read anything else I don't understand you people) then that...kinda doesn't help their cause at all. Like, a post saying 'wow, there sure is a a lot of slave!fic' doesn't really *do* anything to create a bigger variety of prompts that may inspire a filler. It's just sort of...there. I'm guessing I'm wondering what the poster was hoping for with that post? I don't think it's going to make people write fic they wouldn't have written anyway. Only prompts and prompt discussion can do that.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

As a slavefic fan, this kind of put things into a good perspective for me.

I wonder if the above comment's phrasing is very different and that's why it's coming off better--I mean, 'only a few people writing' vs 'only a few people enjoying' is a totally different sentiment. Only a few people writing (because hey, there aren't quite that many different slave AUs) is facts.

I guess the way I get the resentful atmosphere is that some other posts have implied that it's not just a few people writing slavefic, that it's just a few people enjoying slavefic. Like, the latter seems to have this connotation to me of 'it's just those couple of people, the rest of us have more normal tastes', when really, there's more than just three people who like the slavefics.

And there's also probably a ton of overlap between people who are glorying in the slavefic and people who are loving all the gen and the pokemon AUs and the Fratt and so on. (I know I love all sorts!)

I dunno, I just feel like maybe some people who are really really squicked out by slavefic could take a good step back and just..not let their feelings about the AU come out as 'please stop writing' tones.

Because to me, stuff like 'I can't believe the meme is just slavefic right now' is both understandable in a way (I'd be annoyed if there was *solely* a/b/o) but also comes off as 'stop having fun/stop writing', which kind of goes against the spirit of a kink meme and the way that the rest of the Daredevil kink meme in general is all about lots of comments and lots of prompts and lots of fills and just general *fun*.

(That, and the 'overexaggeration' anon below, don't post again like that, yeah? Posts like that don't help.)

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

I dunno, I just feel like maybe some people who are really really squicked out by slavefic could take a good step back and just..not let their feelings about the AU come out as 'please stop writing' tones.


*hands* Look, I mean no disrespect, but I think this is a case of assumptions running away with people. It's like the thought pattern here is going from:

'These people are asking questions about my Thing' --> 'they must be questioning why my Thing exists' --> 'they are being passive-aggressively hostile to my Thing' --> 'that means they must be really, really squicked out by my Thing' --> 'therefore every comment not gung-ho for my Thing is really a veiled complaint about me enjoying my Thing.'

Like...everything past that first step is a defensive assumption that just leads into another defensive assumption until the whole world must want you to stop doing your Thing.

Once you assume hostility EVERYTHING will sound hostile, even if it's not. Seriously, the harshest reactions I've seen to slavefic have been 'I don't read it' and 'It's not my cup of tea.' Assumptions that lead you into a downward spiral are something to guard against.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

As the aforementioned author, wow, thank you for being so nice! I'm kind of startled that *anyone* reads it, tbh, it sort of...became its own thing.

But I guess my thing is, I'm always really unsure of what people *want* when they post that there's only a couple of people writing slavefic or the meme is all slavefic.

Like, in the way that some anons have said it, I can tell that they want more non-slavefic, but just saying 'stop having fun' doesn't make anyone want to write or read more non-slavefic, it makes slavefic fans defensive and other people feel like the meme is already saturated with Not Their Content and then not post.

I guess what I take away from a lot of it is that, like, do people want me or other fillers to not crosspost to the meme? Do they want slavefics to end up on their own post? Do they just not know about how to generate more discussion/fills/prompts that are more to their taste? (It's probably the last one, I'm just a cynic.)

And I have no objection to non-slavefic, to get that out of the way. I love it, I've written some of it (daddy kink Matt/Frank), I read it all the time. Nobody has to be converted. You can hate slavefic all you want, that's perfectly fine. We're not saying that more non-slavefic is a bad thing.

But what I guess I'm saying is okay, meme's skewed, what do you want to do about it? Because the repeating of 'it's only a few people' isn't very productive. This is a kink meme. People shouldn't have to feel defensive about their kinks.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

one of the slave-prompt fillers here: Nope, not me. I much prefer Foggy as The Only Sane Man in my fics, desperately trying to bring order into a total clusterfuck world. I, uh, generally shy away from dark!character fics in general, no matter whether it's Matt, Foggy, Karen or anyone. The show and the comics are dark enough for me, I come to the fandom for fun and fluff. ;p (no idea whether the other slave fic writers are into dark!Foggy, though or have anything to do with the prompting...)

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Agree with you about the Only Sane Man thing, that's my cup of tea.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

It's really annoying to me as someone who likes slavefic (and other fic) that we keep getting constantly put as 'the few weirdos' on the meme. Like, it's totally fine if you hate it, but honestly it's this weird undercurrent of resentment or whatever. If you don't like that stuff, just scroll past. We're all here to have fun and not go around pretending like any of our tastes are inherently better.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

I've never heard of the slave fic fans being referred to as 'the few weirdos', though?? Honestly, the only thing I've seen was people saying that there aren't actually that many individual people creating that kind of fic in comparison to the perceived volume of stuff (fics, comments, discussion) being churned out. There's no value judgment attached to that, it's just an observation a few people have made. TBH, that comment was the first time I've seen someone say anything negative about that group and... it's coming from someone who identifies as a slave fic fan? That feels like words are being put in people's mouths.

It's an anon meme and people get antsy about kinkshaming, so I get why it's sometimes easy to see insults in these things, but. Not everything is an insult.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

slave-fic writer here: I think it might have something to do with the fact that the slavery stuff was the first kink that was ever mentioned in the meta? Like, I think there was one post that mainly said 'why is there so much slavery stuff, I'd like to read sth else???' and then a second post agreed, and that was it, then, which, eh. Harmless. I mainly thought 'noooo, for once the meme is chock-full of my fav trope, this is perfect, don't say anything to make it stop/How dare you imply that pretty characters in collars aren't the pinnacle of literary achievement etc' but I couldn't even be bothered to make a comment. Judging by the amount of slavery AU fic existing across many fandoms in general, I also wouldn't ever call writers and readers of it a strange minority. I mean, the tropes I work into my fics don't come outta nowhere :p

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Maybe not in those exact words but, I still feel that there's been resentment, if not outright value judgements, attached to the conversations that've happened on the discussion post. There was this in the "Direction of the Meme" comment, for example (https://daredevilkink.dreamwidth.org/1097.html?thread=12041801#cmt12041801) where someone was all "bleh" and criticising the fic characters. Also references to stuff like "certain areas" and "certain subjects", in other meta recently. Combine that with how people keep emphasising that current meme trends are only the work of a few people... We all know what these comments are referring to. And in context, they are subtly/not-so-subtly basically saying that it's becoming a problem.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

THIS. Everyone seems determined to kink-shame the slavefics in the most roundabout way possible (but, surprise! We can totally see what you're all doing)

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Dude, you should know better by now than to jump to conclusions about tone or the overall intent of a message on the internet. And on an anon meme. Superimposing what YOU think the poster means based on some other comments from some other anons you've seen in a thread from months ago is not "super obvious", it's reaching. Especially when there are people in this very thread saying straight out that what they're pointing out is not an attack. Stop taking it as an attack. Be chill.

And this was supposed to be a thread about the Foggy raping Matt fics, not slavefic in general. That particular theme has shown up in some of the slavefics, but definitely not all of them. The "few people = lots of output" observation applies to a LOT of subtropes on the meme, of which the slavefic is only one. (and not even the one currently under discussion...)

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Or you could be projecting

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

So I'm a new anon coming out just to agree with this. Reading a fic of Matt in a slave collar and following the link to the kinkmeme was what brought me here. This is my first kinkmeme ever. Maybe I've only been here a short time but it's so strange to see some very popular slave!Matt fics linking to the kinkmeme and then here on the kinkmeme what I'm reading is some people saying ugh and why and making very roundabout comments how only two or three people like slave fics? Uh no? If that were true there wouldn't be all the current delicious slave Matt fics happening in fandom, right? Those fics brought me and my best friend here. We came for the angsty fics but stayed for the discussions. ^^ Thank you to everyone who isn't ashamed of liking what they like and putting those prompts out there because you basically made my life better lol.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Out of curiosity, which fic?

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

No one is saying 'ugh and why.' Absolutely no one has said that. No, I take that back - the only people who have said anything negative about slavefic fans have been the slavefic fans who are defensive because people point out that there aren't actually an army of them on the meme, which is what it looks like right now.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

If that were true there wouldn't be all the current delicious slave Matt fics happening in fandom, right?

fyi, if you read through the comments on the slave fic threads, you'll see that quite a few of them ARE being written by the same authors. Saying that there's only three-ish people writing it isn't a wild assumption.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, THIS. Isn't 'YKINMKATO' literally the first rule of the kinkmeme?

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

You'd think so. But apparently when it comes to slave AUs, it's grounds for pearl-clutching and cauterwauling about how the entire meme is going to the gutters.