daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

Umm... As one of the people who complained about there only being one type of fic being filled, trust me, there are tropes I hate much worse. It was the lack of variety that got to me--I'm going to be scrolling past the vast majority of what shows up on a kinkmeme, anyhow.

That was over a month ago, and the complaint no longer stands. (Thank goodness!) Now we've even got fills I can enjoy (yay!)-- we've got threads with demonic geese, and gen soulbonds, and Foggy as a BNF, and yes, even the Pokemon fills, all of which appear to be pretty active right now. (I don't know all that much about Pokemon, but man, those art fills are adorable.) Plus, I'm excited about there possibly being more "Daredevil perceived as a robot" and at least theoretically interested in where that "Matt has trigger phrases from Stick" thread may go, although that may change. And there are still about three active slave WIPs, I think, but, y'know, that's what that "Page Down" button is for.

re: the art fills - I know, right?? I'm not even into Pokemon but those are adorable.

Absolutely.

And the artist keeps saying things like, "Oh, I can't draw backgrounds" or "I can't draw Matt" and I'm like... "I've seen much worse art for sale at cons."

^^ I think variety is just something people were missing for a bit on the last post. I don't think anyone really intends it as a slam on the slave AU people, so much as just *sigh* - I guess I'm gonna have to leave for a bit and come back on the next post" or *sigh* - guess I'm not gonna be able to flat meme it for a bit". Especially because even though this meme doesn't require warnings, the common courtesy had been to warn, and because people were also changing titles in addition to removing warnings it was difficult for a while to sort out which were slave AU fills and which weren't when flat meming.

(So for the people above writing the fic saying "What can we really do in this situation?" maybe keeping the original post prompt titles with the fic title underneath in the body and warning in your prompts for rape non/con or clearly stating it's a slavery AU in your prompt headers would help? Again, not complaining and don't have a problem with it at all, but if you do feel there's tension, it could help? I know some of you said you were new to the meme, so you might not have known or realized).

For the record, I do a podcast called The OTPodcast, and in our recent Daredevil ep we did mention the trope for slavefic being popular and speculate as to who's writing and why it was happening in the larger context of the fandom. But I also fully admit in that episode that I was responsible for a lot of those initial prompts, and that even if I wasn't a huge fan of the fics that came out of them I was super impressed with the fact that so many people came out for it and that there were clearly collaborative fills and round robins happening.

And, tbh, I also posted a ton of non-slave AU prompts because the people here are also right that the only real way to attract people to other prompts and conversations is to start them.

So I don't think anyone really is kink-shaming here. I think people just wanted to find a way for the slave AU people to co-exist without feeling like they were all the meme was for a while, and that nobody has a clue how to do that and so people are just getting used to it as a thing.

And I think people were also just confused from the outside by how insular some of the prompts were. Some of what might be making people ask "How many people are there writing it?" is the way that suddenly all the fills were crossing over and integrating with one another, and seemed to have their own in-universe tropes and characters, and even for someone trying to follow those fics it got confusing and a little bit like "What even has this become now?" Like, I suspect it's only a few because of how specific each character was and how the round robins and collaborations were happening, not because I have an issue and want it to only be a few people. It was just interesting to also watch that little sub-community evolve and makes me curious.

TL;DR - Some of the tension here might be because of the way slave AU post headings weren't clear for flat memers, and I don't think anyone is trying to make anyone feel shamed. Keep on keeping on, guys, because what you're doing is actually kind of impressive.

Thanks for the advice re: headers and such--I try to put trigger warnings in tags and mention specific chapters that have noncon and such on ao3 because that seems to be the most common way to do it (and I have no idea how trigger warnings come off to other people), but I didn't do it in the headers here because it didn't seem common and I would really rather not end up with trigger warning wank. (It is, ironically, super triggering.)

AYRT - Yeah, I suspected that if some of you are new to the meme, you just may not have realized.

I didn't know when I first came here to do it either, because I wasn't flat meme viewing. But now that I'm in flat view, it's really necessary for people to not change the original prompt title in the header and just add [FILL] (even though you're correct that not everyone does it, which does get generally irritating).

If someone has warned in their prompt post originally, keeping the same warning on the fill helps the people in flat view immediately scroll past it. I did here from friends on the meme that they were annoyed that they would half-read a fill having no clue which prompt it was attached to and get immediately uncomfortable and annoyed. Not because it was slavery AU, just because they didn't want to read it, but otherwise would have had to link back to the beginning of the thread to figure it out.

So yeah... not a requirement in the rules, but if you're worried about the rest of the meme getting prickly with you about it, then it could just ease people's issues a bit.

SA - Doing it on AO3 is good too. But the meme definitely still needs a way to know what's going to be triggering or help them see what they don't want to read.

And to also ease your concern, I have in the history of this meme never seen trigger warning wank occur. So go forth and warn and don't feel like that's a thing here.

What's the appeal of flatmeme? It sounds so high maintenance compared to normal viewing

You don't have to bookmark and keep checking back on the thirty or so threads that you might be kind of interested in? Or miss the absolutely awesome fill for the prompt that you thought would never go anywhere?

SA: I meant, thirty or so threads *per round.*

I thought so too, initially, and didn't get it.

But once I started flatmeming, I realized that (especially if you're on your phone), it just ensures that you don't miss anything.

By only following the threads I was interested in I was missing all this awesome conversation when things got off-topic or threads exploded.

Flatmeme generally you can just scroll by stuff you don't like for the most part, but you can also find when interesting things are being said on prompts you initially would otherwise have ignored.

And again it's the easiest option if you're on your phone since it's simpler and results in less tabs open.

Idk I'm pretty tightly attached to my hide thread button, but what is a kinkmeme for if not to explore new things. I'll try it out. Thanks to everyone who answered :)

There's 9 posts, right? With various fills throughout. Now let's say you're on page 14 of post 9, and there's a fill you're looking forward to on page 1. You also really like a fill that was in post 8, and it's still getting filled, and a couple in post 7. But you can't remember the pages they're on, especially when it moves onto the next post, and you could bookmark all of those fills you'd like to see prompted but there's always a risk those bookmarks will dissappear or accidentally get deleted. I've lost my bookmarks 3 times on my 4 year old laptop alone. Three through my own stupidity, but even a badly formatted update can do something you never expected.

So you can't guarantee you'll remember all of the posts and threads al of the fills are on, that you want to keep track of, and one fic you might have been keeping an eye on might go a while without updating so you might not even remember what you need to look for when you next check again. The best way to make sure you can catch everything is to flatmeme, you can't miss anything, everything new is on the last page, and you can scroll back and forth between fills and replies.

It took me a while to warm up to flatmeme view, myself, but once I did, I've never gone back to thread view. How will I know there's a fill on a prompt I was keeping an eye out on page 2 when we're all having a party on page 16?

NA - Just want to mention that as a reader and rape survivor (and flatmeme viewer), it was really jarring and uncomfortable to start to read the Frank/Elektra/Matt fic and then learn that it was a rape fic with one of my favorite characters as the perpetrator. I really wish that one had been left with the original title intact. So authors reading, here's another reader that would really appreciate and love if you left the subject line, at least in part!

(And if you need incentive, there have been times I skimmed the start of a fic on flatmeme w/o the subject line, decided it probably wasn't to my taste, and much later found out it was in response to a favorite (or my own!) prompt. You can probably get more readers if you include subject lines!)

Idk, sounds more like flatmeme isn't suited to your purposes and you'd have a better time if you changed it. Everything on the fills page is required to have the original subject line, maybe you should follow that instead

DA

Which would let you miss out on any interesting discussions that may be going on just because you weren't stalking that one thread from six pages back.

Flatmeme has 37 pages, threaded has 7. Why would I want to risk being triggered or missing out on my own post (not to mention having to load 37 pages on my phone) when I could just keep an eye out for surges in comments?
I legitimately don't understand the benefits here.

The latest part might have seven. When it gets to twenty pages, and the surge of comments are spread between multiple threads, then it's understandable. It's also not unreasonable to want to be able, imo, to want to join in on flatmeme. Just cos you're happy with threaded doesn't mean everyone is.

DA - judging by your comment, I'm not sure you understand how flatmeme works. The whole point of flatmeme is to *not* have to load several pages, but only one the last one since your last visit (or maybe the last two or three when you were away longer) to see all the new comments *and* not missing out on a single one. It's definitely faster and easier than checking seven individual pages for surges in comments. Lastly, I *think* you stand about an equal chance of accidentally reading something you didn't want to read on flatmeme, since most people who bother with content will mostly put them on the beginnings of individual fill posts where whatever it is they're warning about will occur.

edit: should be "people who bother with content WARNINGS"

Re: Foggy doesn't rape Matt, we're discussing Flat VS threaded

(Anonymous) - 2016-01-19 23:51 (UTC) - Expand

AYRT - Like above anon said, I like the discussion for the prompts. And not all minifills (especially the very, very tiny ones) make it to the fill page. I'm also not demanding people do it, just encouraging.

Seeing as how it's part of the rules not to change the subject line except to add [FILL], I don't see what the problem is.

Not quite

1. Put [FILL] or something similar in the subject line when posting a fill.

^^Yeah, the headings thing was a big problem for me, as a flat-memer. I don't necessarily need all the old heading, but enough to say, "Oh, yeah, that's that prompt/genre" or "Ooh, that pairing, no thanks" is nice.

Sometimes a heading change can even be nice. (Why are we still pretending to talk about a completely different subgenre in these posts?) The extra work involved to check the link to the parent thread when all the metadata that's given on the header and in the first few lines of the post is a fill title or, worse, "[FILL]" is a pain, not to mention it requires going to the end of the post and it's almost impossible to not read at least the last line, which can kind of spoil the fill even if you were interested in it.

(I decided to change my heading, because, as a flatmemer, it's nice to know which part of the discussion this is about.)

+1 from a new anon to the discussion - everyone should definitely keep on having fun doing their thing! But as a flatmemer it would be really really great to have more than a title to go on.

Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

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Side note of adoration for random anon

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Kinkmeme etiquette (WAS: Re: Foggy rapes Matt???)

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