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Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Maybe not in those exact words but, I still feel that there's been resentment, if not outright value judgements, attached to the conversations that've happened on the discussion post. There was this in the "Direction of the Meme" comment, for example (https://daredevilkink.dreamwidth.org/1097.html?thread=12041801#cmt12041801) where someone was all "bleh" and criticising the fic characters. Also references to stuff like "certain areas" and "certain subjects", in other meta recently. Combine that with how people keep emphasising that current meme trends are only the work of a few people... We all know what these comments are referring to. And in context, they are subtly/not-so-subtly basically saying that it's becoming a problem.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

THIS. Everyone seems determined to kink-shame the slavefics in the most roundabout way possible (but, surprise! We can totally see what you're all doing)

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Dude, you should know better by now than to jump to conclusions about tone or the overall intent of a message on the internet. And on an anon meme. Superimposing what YOU think the poster means based on some other comments from some other anons you've seen in a thread from months ago is not "super obvious", it's reaching. Especially when there are people in this very thread saying straight out that what they're pointing out is not an attack. Stop taking it as an attack. Be chill.

And this was supposed to be a thread about the Foggy raping Matt fics, not slavefic in general. That particular theme has shown up in some of the slavefics, but definitely not all of them. The "few people = lots of output" observation applies to a LOT of subtropes on the meme, of which the slavefic is only one. (and not even the one currently under discussion...)

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Or you could be projecting

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

So I'm a new anon coming out just to agree with this. Reading a fic of Matt in a slave collar and following the link to the kinkmeme was what brought me here. This is my first kinkmeme ever. Maybe I've only been here a short time but it's so strange to see some very popular slave!Matt fics linking to the kinkmeme and then here on the kinkmeme what I'm reading is some people saying ugh and why and making very roundabout comments how only two or three people like slave fics? Uh no? If that were true there wouldn't be all the current delicious slave Matt fics happening in fandom, right? Those fics brought me and my best friend here. We came for the angsty fics but stayed for the discussions. ^^ Thank you to everyone who isn't ashamed of liking what they like and putting those prompts out there because you basically made my life better lol.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Out of curiosity, which fic?

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, I hate naming fics and authors on an anonymous public page. I will say that it was not a recent slave Matt fic that set me on this path, but lately there have been several new slave Matt wips by different authors so this makes me very happy.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

No one is saying 'ugh and why.' Absolutely no one has said that. No, I take that back - the only people who have said anything negative about slavefic fans have been the slavefic fans who are defensive because people point out that there aren't actually an army of them on the meme, which is what it looks like right now.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

If that were true there wouldn't be all the current delicious slave Matt fics happening in fandom, right?

fyi, if you read through the comments on the slave fic threads, you'll see that quite a few of them ARE being written by the same authors. Saying that there's only three-ish people writing it isn't a wild assumption.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT - If I could direct you to what I actually wrote?

very roundabout comments how only two or three people like slave fics? Uh no? If that were true there wouldn't be all the current delicious slave Matt fics happening in fandom, right?

If I could explain? To me, when someone keeps saying there are only a few people who are actively discussing the slave topic (which is the drum getting banged; that there's a very few people active on the meme right now), they're correlating low numbers of activity to low numbers of interested parties on this topic, which isn't necessarily true. My comment above wasn't talking about how many people are writing slave fic, that doesn't matter to me at all. If I had more time I'd be one of those slavefic writers absolutely. I referenced interest in slave fics. Do you see why I was having a disconnect? Maybe there's less than 10 slave wips happening right now, but they all seem to be humming right along, they've got high hit numbers and lots of kudos and comments. If people know how many slave fics there are online and whether they're popular, then it seems disingenuous to imply it's not a popular topic just because there are only a few people discussing it here.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

To clarify, when you're talking about slavefics, you just mean in the DD fandom only, right? You're not referencing slavefics in other fandoms?

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, THIS. Isn't 'YKINMKATO' literally the first rule of the kinkmeme?

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

You'd think so. But apparently when it comes to slave AUs, it's grounds for pearl-clutching and cauterwauling about how the entire meme is going to the gutters.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Umm... As one of the people who complained about there only being one type of fic being filled, trust me, there are tropes I hate much worse. It was the lack of variety that got to me--I'm going to be scrolling past the vast majority of what shows up on a kinkmeme, anyhow.

That was over a month ago, and the complaint no longer stands. (Thank goodness!) Now we've even got fills I can enjoy (yay!)-- we've got threads with demonic geese, and gen soulbonds, and Foggy as a BNF, and yes, even the Pokemon fills, all of which appear to be pretty active right now. (I don't know all that much about Pokemon, but man, those art fills are adorable.) Plus, I'm excited about there possibly being more "Daredevil perceived as a robot" and at least theoretically interested in where that "Matt has trigger phrases from Stick" thread may go, although that may change. And there are still about three active slave WIPs, I think, but, y'know, that's what that "Page Down" button is for.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

re: the art fills - I know, right?? I'm not even into Pokemon but those are adorable.

Side note of adoration for random anon

[(Anonymous)]

Absolutely.

And the artist keeps saying things like, "Oh, I can't draw backgrounds" or "I can't draw Matt" and I'm like... "I've seen much worse art for sale at cons."

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

^^ I think variety is just something people were missing for a bit on the last post. I don't think anyone really intends it as a slam on the slave AU people, so much as just *sigh* - I guess I'm gonna have to leave for a bit and come back on the next post" or *sigh* - guess I'm not gonna be able to flat meme it for a bit". Especially because even though this meme doesn't require warnings, the common courtesy had been to warn, and because people were also changing titles in addition to removing warnings it was difficult for a while to sort out which were slave AU fills and which weren't when flat meming.

(So for the people above writing the fic saying "What can we really do in this situation?" maybe keeping the original post prompt titles with the fic title underneath in the body and warning in your prompts for rape non/con or clearly stating it's a slavery AU in your prompt headers would help? Again, not complaining and don't have a problem with it at all, but if you do feel there's tension, it could help? I know some of you said you were new to the meme, so you might not have known or realized).

For the record, I do a podcast called The OTPodcast, and in our recent Daredevil ep we did mention the trope for slavefic being popular and speculate as to who's writing and why it was happening in the larger context of the fandom. But I also fully admit in that episode that I was responsible for a lot of those initial prompts, and that even if I wasn't a huge fan of the fics that came out of them I was super impressed with the fact that so many people came out for it and that there were clearly collaborative fills and round robins happening.

And, tbh, I also posted a ton of non-slave AU prompts because the people here are also right that the only real way to attract people to other prompts and conversations is to start them.

So I don't think anyone really is kink-shaming here. I think people just wanted to find a way for the slave AU people to co-exist without feeling like they were all the meme was for a while, and that nobody has a clue how to do that and so people are just getting used to it as a thing.

And I think people were also just confused from the outside by how insular some of the prompts were. Some of what might be making people ask "How many people are there writing it?" is the way that suddenly all the fills were crossing over and integrating with one another, and seemed to have their own in-universe tropes and characters, and even for someone trying to follow those fics it got confusing and a little bit like "What even has this become now?" Like, I suspect it's only a few because of how specific each character was and how the round robins and collaborations were happening, not because I have an issue and want it to only be a few people. It was just interesting to also watch that little sub-community evolve and makes me curious.

TL;DR - Some of the tension here might be because of the way slave AU post headings weren't clear for flat memers, and I don't think anyone is trying to make anyone feel shamed. Keep on keeping on, guys, because what you're doing is actually kind of impressive.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Thanks for the advice re: headers and such--I try to put trigger warnings in tags and mention specific chapters that have noncon and such on ao3 because that seems to be the most common way to do it (and I have no idea how trigger warnings come off to other people), but I didn't do it in the headers here because it didn't seem common and I would really rather not end up with trigger warning wank. (It is, ironically, super triggering.)

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT - Yeah, I suspected that if some of you are new to the meme, you just may not have realized.

I didn't know when I first came here to do it either, because I wasn't flat meme viewing. But now that I'm in flat view, it's really necessary for people to not change the original prompt title in the header and just add [FILL] (even though you're correct that not everyone does it, which does get generally irritating).

If someone has warned in their prompt post originally, keeping the same warning on the fill helps the people in flat view immediately scroll past it. I did here from friends on the meme that they were annoyed that they would half-read a fill having no clue which prompt it was attached to and get immediately uncomfortable and annoyed. Not because it was slavery AU, just because they didn't want to read it, but otherwise would have had to link back to the beginning of the thread to figure it out.

So yeah... not a requirement in the rules, but if you're worried about the rest of the meme getting prickly with you about it, then it could just ease people's issues a bit.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

SA - Doing it on AO3 is good too. But the meme definitely still needs a way to know what's going to be triggering or help them see what they don't want to read.

And to also ease your concern, I have in the history of this meme never seen trigger warning wank occur. So go forth and warn and don't feel like that's a thing here.

Kinkmeme etiquette (WAS: Re: Foggy rapes Matt???)

[(Anonymous)]

^^Yeah, the headings thing was a big problem for me, as a flat-memer. I don't necessarily need all the old heading, but enough to say, "Oh, yeah, that's that prompt/genre" or "Ooh, that pairing, no thanks" is nice.

Sometimes a heading change can even be nice. (Why are we still pretending to talk about a completely different subgenre in these posts?) The extra work involved to check the link to the parent thread when all the metadata that's given on the header and in the first few lines of the post is a fill title or, worse, "[FILL]" is a pain, not to mention it requires going to the end of the post and it's almost impossible to not read at least the last line, which can kind of spoil the fill even if you were interested in it.

(I decided to change my heading, because, as a flatmemer, it's nice to know which part of the discussion this is about.)

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

+1 from a new anon to the discussion - everyone should definitely keep on having fun doing their thing! But as a flatmemer it would be really really great to have more than a title to go on.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

...and cauterwauling about how the entire meme is going to the gutters.

Links or it didn't happen. Where did someone post about slave AUs causing the meme to go to the gutters? Or is this an exaggeration?

I get that people have their backs up when they think people are attacking them, but seriously, stop putting words in other people's mouths. That's causing more drama, more so than any supposed hate (again, links) for slave AUs.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

Hey, mods, can you delete the above comment? Now that it is no longer 4AM, I can see that that was overexaggeration.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

[(Anonymous)]

I say leave it. It's part of the conversation and there are already replies to it. Taking it out will just throw everything out of context.