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The Defenders-only Discussion Post!

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Talk about the Defenders! Speculate, discuss, squee and debate. There's a thread for each episode so you can discuss what you've watched so far without being spoiled for future episodes - click on top level view to see only the first comment in each thread and stay spoiler-free.

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I don't remember if it happened in this episode precisely, but Matt telling Karen to suck it was a highlight of the show for me.

Well as long as she's not super patronizing about it then it's all okay.

So there was no doorway to Kun'lun down there? Just a bunch of dragon bones?

Okaaaaay... sorry but... in what universe does Matt go missing with Luke and Jess, and then all of a sudden Daredevil is chilling with them and somehow him being in the suit means nobody puts it together.

Also, Misty doesn't ask questions about the choice of people Luke asked her to protect and why that come back to Matt? Why does she think Karen or Foggy are there? Why does everyone else?

I call BS on the shenanigans around Matt's identity so far. Alexandra saw him out of the mask at the Chinese place. Elektra said "his name was Matthew" to the other fingers of the Hand. And the chinese restaurant owners saw him chilling with the other three out of the mask. And he certainly doesn't look like a kidnap victim to the other people on that subway.

Yeah I am quite pleased by Foggy sort of coming around and now Karen being the problem. And as much as I totally get Foggy's (valid) frustrations last season with Matt, it is nice to see Matt stand up for himself and basically realize and say "There isn't Matt Murdock and then Daredevil, there's just me."

That's the impact of hanging with other people whose heroism is who they are and who say "love it or leave it, but it's not about you or me and is about the right thing".

Until that last scene I was cursing Marvel and muttering he better not really be dead.

Did you honestly think he would be? Season 3 starts filming in October...

But yeah... it's like they were like "Hey, so we really really bummed fic writers out last season. What can we do to really really fuck them over worse this time."

That was... something. Not a bad something. But it was a lot.

Yep. Just like there was no dragon in Iron Fist. Just a shitty, disappointing shadow on a cave wall.

Anything related to Iron Fist is just sure to be underwhelming. It's like a rule.

HOLD ME AND TELL ME EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY. *sobbing*

I have to say one important thing... Matt being Danny's inspiration to straight up protect NYC as a superhero of sorts is a beautiful thing, even if I have some issues with him as a character.

And Matt and Jessica's weird friendship where she seems the most upset of anyone at his death also gives me life.

Can we all just write fix-it fic that celebrates how awesome their little found family ended up being, please? I need it like I need air.

Also how would the city have collapsed if they removed the dragon bones? Are all the cities in the Marvel Universe built on dragon bones and that's how they get their powers as cities?

And how did they get there in the first place? Did there used to be dragons on Manhattan Island? And why did they die in the same spot? Is this an elephant graveyard sort of situation?

Take your cue from the writers and don't think about it too hard. Lmao

I enjoyed it but Petrie and Ramirez are the worst for gaping plot holes, broad stereotypes and tropes in place of characterization, and straight up not keeping track of all the crap they're trying to do.

I think the Hand seriously did not care one way or another who Matt was. They didn't really care who anyone was except Iron Fist, which makes sense. These people are too busy blinding people to work in their heroin factories and gutting endangered bears.

Hey, the Punisher also saved her! And Foggy. And Ben. And Ellison lent a helping hand at one point. Come to think of it, almost every man in her vicinity has needed to pitch in with the general "keep Karen safe" plan.

I was under no impression that he was really dead. I was just glad they SHOWED him alive to reassure the audience.

I saw a review that said they didn't mind the deaths and I did not know that it was going to be filming in October

GDI Matt... What's with that stupid grin when you get back into the suit before they go storming the bad guys' 'castle'?

I'm gonna go bald from all the hair pulling I'm gonna do until DD season 3 finally drops!

Marci was in this episode but had no dialogue. Weird. There must have been some version of the script where she said something, otherwise, they wouldn't have brought the actor in to play her.

Karen really disappointed me throughout this season. Her insistence that Daredevil is separate from Matt and that he needs to give him up in order to be true to himself shows she knows zilch about Matt. Foggy at least brought him the suit. Karen... was just the absolute worst friend ever.

Yeah, the crooked paintings didn't make a lot of sense. They were already there in season 2 of Daredevil, but they weren't askew.

There was at least one fight in season 2 in Matt's apartment, which may have messed with the alignment of the paintings. The only explanation I have is that no one other than Matt has been in his apartment since, and Matt simply doesn't care enough to straighten them, although I'm sure that his supersenses would make him be able to do it if he wanted.

I agree I love the dynamic between Jess and Matt! I feel like they are both kind of a mess and I found their interactions so interesting. I'd love to see more of it in the future!

I just took it for granted that they were crooked by the earthquake at the start of the season: Matt's apartment seems to be shaking strongly.

Right! Forgot about that lol.

Although really... once they're crooked, what incentive would he ever have to notice or care. It just amused me to notice they were there at all.

I've thought about this, and when you break it down, episodes 3-8 are really just the Defenders trying to come up with ways to fight the Hand and then settling on killing them all with dynamite. Which they don't come up with - Colleen does. It's a plan that works, but it shouldn't have taken them that long to think up.

"Where's the Hand?"
"I don't know, but we just fought them in that giant new building they own that's over a secret cave so maybe they're there?"
"Good idea let's go fight them but not bring any weapons of significance."

Nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

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