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The Defenders-only Discussion Post!

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The Defenders Prompt Post

Talk about the Defenders! Speculate, discuss, squee and debate. There's a thread for each episode so you can discuss what you've watched so far without being spoiled for future episodes - click on top level view to see only the first comment in each thread and stay spoiler-free.

Anon commenting is not mandatory for this post. Playing nice is always mandatory.

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Talk about everything!

Holy fuck! That ending was a total doozie! I hope it's gonna spawn ALL THE FAN FICTIONS! I can't wait for Daredevil season 3.

HOLD ME AND TELL ME EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY. *sobbing*

Honestly a little disappointed with how they handled Karen because like - she's been off gallivanting with the Punisher, for one, but also like...

If Matt weren't Daredevil, she would literally be dead. She would've been dead a long, long time ago.

Well as long as she's not super patronizing about it then it's all okay.

Hey, the Punisher also saved her! And Foggy. And Ben. And Ellison lent a helping hand at one point. Come to think of it, almost every man in her vicinity has needed to pitch in with the general "keep Karen safe" plan.

Kind of sexist, don't you think? Damsel in distress, we're coming to the rescue...

Re: Whole season discussion

(Anonymous) - 2017-08-24 20:18 (UTC) - Expand

Karen really disappointed me throughout this season. Her insistence that Daredevil is separate from Matt and that he needs to give him up in order to be true to himself shows she knows zilch about Matt. Foggy at least brought him the suit. Karen... was just the absolute worst friend ever.

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-19 17:53 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-21 03:47 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-22 06:52 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-22 11:14 (UTC) - Expand

I don't think Karen's against Daredevil, per se, I think she's against what being Daredevil does to Matt.

They went really hard with the addiction metaphor in Defenders. In DD s2 that comparison was definitely there, but it was spread out and a bit more subtle. Matt hit rock bottom with Elektra (metaphorical enabler) and now he's in the 'recovering addict' phase.

Karen doesn't actually have a problem with vigilante justice, she even says straight out that she thinks Daredevil made the city safer. She has a problem with how Matt handles being a vigilante - and for good reason, imo. Remember how Matt's downward spiral basically tore apart Karen's life apart in s2? Also she now knows for a fact he lied to her face about missing the mask. Of course she's mad. And scared. And nervous. Karen's not one for easy emotional reactions, if you hadn't noticed.

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-20 03:44 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-20 04:00 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-21 03:55 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-22 06:33 (UTC) - Expand

So there was no doorway to Kun'lun down there? Just a bunch of dragon bones?

Yep. Just like there was no dragon in Iron Fist. Just a shitty, disappointing shadow on a cave wall.

Anything related to Iron Fist is just sure to be underwhelming. It's like a rule.

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-19 02:51 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-19 03:07 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-21 03:59 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-21 20:53 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-22 00:07 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-22 00:38 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-24 20:16 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Whole season discussion

(Anonymous) - 2017-08-24 20:18 (UTC) - Expand

Until that last scene I was cursing Marvel and muttering he better not really be dead.

Did you honestly think he would be? Season 3 starts filming in October...

But yeah... it's like they were like "Hey, so we really really bummed fic writers out last season. What can we do to really really fuck them over worse this time."

That was... something. Not a bad something. But it was a lot.

Re: Whole season discussion

(Anonymous) - 2017-08-19 03:21 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-19 04:15 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Whole season discussion

(Anonymous) - 2017-08-22 13:22 (UTC) - Expand

I was under no impression that he was really dead. I was just glad they SHOWED him alive to reassure the audience.

Re: Whole season discussion

(Anonymous) - 2017-08-21 04:12 (UTC) - Expand

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(Anonymous) - 2017-08-22 00:39 (UTC) - Expand

I have to say one important thing... Matt being Danny's inspiration to straight up protect NYC as a superhero of sorts is a beautiful thing, even if I have some issues with him as a character.

And Matt and Jessica's weird friendship where she seems the most upset of anyone at his death also gives me life.

Can we all just write fix-it fic that celebrates how awesome their little found family ended up being, please? I need it like I need air.

I agree I love the dynamic between Jess and Matt! I feel like they are both kind of a mess and I found their interactions so interesting. I'd love to see more of it in the future!

I've thought about this, and when you break it down, episodes 3-8 are really just the Defenders trying to come up with ways to fight the Hand and then settling on killing them all with dynamite. Which they don't come up with - Colleen does. It's a plan that works, but it shouldn't have taken them that long to think up.

"Where's the Hand?"
"I don't know, but we just fought them in that giant new building they own that's over a secret cave so maybe they're there?"
"Good idea let's go fight them but not bring any weapons of significance."

Nuke them from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

LOL nice Aliens nod there. But ARE THEY REALLY DEAD? The only way the Hand don't come back to life--if they're resurrected already-- is if you cut off their head. There were three different Hand in that hole with Matt when the building came down, and all three of them had their heads attached to their bodies. And SOMEONE got Matt out.

Is it terrible that I hope Gao lived?

Them deciding Matt's going to be willing to commit suicide for his psycho manipulative toxic asshole girlfriend, and then acting like it's a beautiful love story, was disgusting to watch.

On one hand: I want Matt to be smarter than this, which frustrates me to no end. On the other: Him not bucking Elektra actually means he's been manipulated to the point of absolute tragedy, and watching that happen makes my skin crawl in a way that doesn't entertain me-- it just makes me sick.

It doesn't matter that he didn't die. He was willing to do so, and as far as he knew, did.

I agree with you that yeah, he was totally willing to die, and yeah, the whole thing was pretty sick. Personally, because I am a sick f*ck, I liked it. Because my take on Matt is that he kind of has a death wish, and this very self-destructive side of him that can and will throw everything away for his co-dependent, unhealthy relationship with Elektra. I don't think it's romantic in a nice way, no. But I think it's an interesting storyline in a twisted, sick way. I like Matt's character partly because he is a mess like that. (I like Elektra for the same reasons; I know it's not a popular opinion but that's okay) ...

Re: Whole season discussion

(Anonymous) - 2017-08-21 20:56 (UTC) - Expand

Matt's name "Daredevil." He takes risks and he's always had a flair for the dramatic. He's just more jolly about it in the comics. He clearly thought someone had to die down there, and it was going to be him instead of Danny, Luke, or Jessica. Did it make a lot of sense? No. Was it in keeping with Matt's character to be self-destructive in the name of love? Yes.

Re: Whole season discussion

(Anonymous) - 2017-08-23 03:42 (UTC) - Expand

He accepted that he probably was going to die down there before he ever made the decision to stay and try to talk to Elektra. And he kept trying to get her to walk away so they could both live, but she threw that bar into the lift winch and made sure he was going to die with her. She said she wasn't scared of dying because she was taking him with her where he belonged. If she'd have said okay, let's go, they would have both lived, but she took that choice away from him. After that, there was no point in denying it or trying to find a way out, they were going to die and it was a little like the rooftop scene part 2, except this time Matt was sure there was no way out. He had all the calm acceptance and kissed her goodbye and he's going to be real surprised when he wakes up in the nunnery.

But he was willing to die if that's what it took. Matt's always been willing to die for what he believes in. Every time he goes out as DD, that's a possibility he has had to accept.

He didn't realistically expect to live. The bomb was set to go off and he couldn't defeat her. I think their end was they're going to die because they're both shitty damaged people but they do love each other. It's tragic in several ways. It's nit meant to be tragic in oh these young lovers died!

Loved:
- Matt and Jessica friendship
- Danny Rand
- Elektra freeing herself
- Stick dying
- Danny Rand
- Matt telling Karen to suck it
- the Matt and Foggy hug
- Danny and Luke befriending
- Matt and Danny bonding
- Jessica coming to save Trish and Matt helping
- Matt and Elektra, that was HOT

Hated:
- all the gaping plot holes, like wtf, Petrie and Ramirez are TERRIBLE
- the supporting cast was so underutilised, shame
- did they just kill Elektra AND Madame Gao AND the Hand as an organisation in one go?
- that ending, uh, I despise Born Again, and the whole Mother Nun thing is... thanks but no thanks.

(I think Gao and Elektra survived)

Last bullet: Oh interesting. Can you fill us in, those of us who have not read the comics, on the basic thing of the Born Again storyline? What do you hate about it?