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daredevilkink2015-05-09 07:29 pm
ddk_mod) wrote in daredevilkink2015-05-09 07:29 pm
Entry tags:
Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1
Please head over to Discussion Post #2!
Please head over to Discussion Post #2!
For one, there was this post from another thread here:
http://daredevilkink.dreamwidth.org/1097.html?thread=4746057#cmt4746057
There were some threads on the kink meme that got deleted, too.
Though most of what I've seen has been on the tumblr Daredevil tag.
http://daredevilkink.dreamwidth.org/1097.html?thread=4746057#cmt4746057
There were some threads on the kink meme that got deleted, too.
Though most of what I've seen has been on the tumblr Daredevil tag.
For example, if Karen hadn't lied to Ben to get him to the nursing home to talk to Fisk's mother, Fisk might not have killed him. His reason for killing him was that he went after his mother. He didn't. Karen did.
That's not the same as her being responsible for Ben's death, though. Like, did she even have reason to believe that Ben would be killed because of that? She didn't know the depths of Fisk's instability and thirst for vengeance when she decided to trick Ben. It's entirely possible she thought they were going to find the smoking gun, that Fisk wouldn't be able to touch them once they talked to his mom, that Ben would immediately print the story and Fisk would be in too deep shit to do anything about it.
I think Karen was naive, but she never had reason to believe that the corrupt businessman she was going after was actually a supervillain who would murder a man with his bare hands. If she knew how dangerous Fisk was, I would call her partially responsible (because Fisk is ultimately the one responsible for Ben's death), but I really don't think she can be blamed for getting Ben killed when she had no idea that it would happen.
That's not the same as her being responsible for Ben's death, though. Like, did she even have reason to believe that Ben would be killed because of that? She didn't know the depths of Fisk's instability and thirst for vengeance when she decided to trick Ben. It's entirely possible she thought they were going to find the smoking gun, that Fisk wouldn't be able to touch them once they talked to his mom, that Ben would immediately print the story and Fisk would be in too deep shit to do anything about it.
I think Karen was naive, but she never had reason to believe that the corrupt businessman she was going after was actually a supervillain who would murder a man with his bare hands. If she knew how dangerous Fisk was, I would call her partially responsible (because Fisk is ultimately the one responsible for Ben's death), but I really don't think she can be blamed for getting Ben killed when she had no idea that it would happen.
SA, oh and on Reddit. :| Though I haven't save links, I just backbuttoned out of there.
Nope, but she did lie to him to get him to go up there in the first place. That's the bit I take issue with.
ayrt
Yeah, me too. That wasn't the right thing to do, but she was desperate and living in constant fear. It doesn't excuse her, but I can understand why she did it. She thought (naively) that Ben would be so thrilled with the information they got that he would forgive her for lying to him, and they would put Fisk away and everything would be dandy.
Yeah, me too. That wasn't the right thing to do, but she was desperate and living in constant fear. It doesn't excuse her, but I can understand why she did it. She thought (naively) that Ben would be so thrilled with the information they got that he would forgive her for lying to him, and they would put Fisk away and everything would be dandy.
AYRT
There's also dialogue Matt has in the final fight with Fisk that's like "This is my city; my family..." after Fisk was going on about how Hell's Kitchen doesn't deserve him and his grand plans. So at least I'm justified in my weird confusion?
There's also dialogue Matt has in the final fight with Fisk that's like "This is my city; my family..." after Fisk was going on about how Hell's Kitchen doesn't deserve him and his grand plans. So at least I'm justified in my weird confusion?
Omens - Matt/Foggy established relationship, in which Matt does not tell Foggy about Daredevil and Foggy finds out. If you're in the mood for heartbreak, read this: http://archiveofourown.org/works/4149015
yes he did! and foggy typically calls matt "matty" either when he's really worried about matt or being affectionate. i love it, it's adorable.
it's kind of sad we're even having convos about What Karen Did Wrong, considering this is a kinkmeme that involves characters who AGGRESSIVELY gentrify poor areas by infecting the population with drug addiction and are constantly MAKING PEOPLE DISAPPEAR thru human trafficking? like, people LOVE vladimir bc he Sort Of redeemed himself by working with matt, but he was still fucking selling women and children into slavery? and fisk is an aggressive drug pusher working with gao's resources and his idea of "cleaning up" is by scaring away poor minority people so he can make their tenements only affordable to the rich.....
idk. like, i feel bad about fisk's backstory but i still absolutely despise fisk and i cannot believe we're writing what equates to a CALLOUT POST of some poor, relatively innocent female character. like, really, guys? she's afraid and likely a trauma survivor and we're complaining about her being somewhat insensitive??? really?
idk. like, i feel bad about fisk's backstory but i still absolutely despise fisk and i cannot believe we're writing what equates to a CALLOUT POST of some poor, relatively innocent female character. like, really, guys? she's afraid and likely a trauma survivor and we're complaining about her being somewhat insensitive??? really?
The blame for Ben's death still ultimately lies with Fisk (and the woman at the newspaper who tipped him off). In case you've forgotten, Karen was very nearly murdered for her mistake as well.
It's like Claire nearly getting murdered because of her association with Matt. It wouldn't be fair to blame Matt for what happened to Claire, because Matt can't control what other people do. Just like we can't blame Matt for Elena's death, just because Fisk wanted to make a point.
It's like Claire nearly getting murdered because of her association with Matt. It wouldn't be fair to blame Matt for what happened to Claire, because Matt can't control what other people do. Just like we can't blame Matt for Elena's death, just because Fisk wanted to make a point.
People treat her like she's precious because we're all road weary from all the other main female characters in every other fandom we've been in getting hated on, or pushed aside in favour of the fav slash pairing, lol.
It seems like people hold her to a higher standard than most other characters though. Like, I'm not sure her morals or actions are any worse or better than Matt's, tbh.
(Funny enough, I remember seeing a bit of Claire hate when I first got into fandom. Don't know if it's still going, but people seemed unnecessarily harsh on her for "abandoning" Matt, when all she was doing was looking out for herself).
It seems like people hold her to a higher standard than most other characters though. Like, I'm not sure her morals or actions are any worse or better than Matt's, tbh.
(Funny enough, I remember seeing a bit of Claire hate when I first got into fandom. Don't know if it's still going, but people seemed unnecessarily harsh on her for "abandoning" Matt, when all she was doing was looking out for herself).
lol, I am writing a sequel to my fic and it's already longer than it's predecessor HALP XD;;
how did this fandom eat my brain so hard?
how did this fandom eat my brain so hard?
This sounds like a great story so far. Okay, here's my idea, for what it's worth.
You write that Zack and Kiera meet up with Matt and Foggy as lawyers and Zack is starting to realize that Daredevil isn't so bad after all. So maybe Zack is the next person to get assaulted, mugged or threatened, and Daredevil saves him next. And Zack finds out that Daredevil knows about the Retributionists, knows that he's their leader, and he helped him anyway. So Zack tries to disband the Retributionists and convert them to his way of thinking, and although some of them come around, others refuse to listen. Zack arranges a meeting with Daredevil to apologize, but Daredevil's all cool with it, because Zack did his best. So it could end on a bittersweet note.
And maybe Matt, as a lawyer, encourages Kiera to follow her dreams and go on to college or business school, even if it's hard and scary sometimes.
You write that Zack and Kiera meet up with Matt and Foggy as lawyers and Zack is starting to realize that Daredevil isn't so bad after all. So maybe Zack is the next person to get assaulted, mugged or threatened, and Daredevil saves him next. And Zack finds out that Daredevil knows about the Retributionists, knows that he's their leader, and he helped him anyway. So Zack tries to disband the Retributionists and convert them to his way of thinking, and although some of them come around, others refuse to listen. Zack arranges a meeting with Daredevil to apologize, but Daredevil's all cool with it, because Zack did his best. So it could end on a bittersweet note.
And maybe Matt, as a lawyer, encourages Kiera to follow her dreams and go on to college or business school, even if it's hard and scary sometimes.
OP here. Interesting twist! Though I'm personally not so fond of the reveal fics. I mean, yes, that would probably work, but I think I'd like to leave the big reveal to Karen to the actual show and not do it in fic. And I don't really see how this could be done without Karen in the know. Well, maybe it could. Let me ponder this for a while. :-)
Yeah, how DID this fandom eat my brain, too? Suddenly I'm reading and writing up a storm and don't have patience for anything else!
OP here. Ooooh, I love that! Yes, that could definitely work, though I guess I need to come up with a way of having Zack being assaulted without it sounding too much of a coincidence. Although I suppose I could somehow tie it to the attack on Kiera -- family relation and all.
As for the last sentence you wrote, I actually already had something like that in mind (there's a specific scene, probably in the courthouse, that I'm thinking of), so I'm glad we seem to be on the same page.
As for the last sentence you wrote, I actually already had something like that in mind (there's a specific scene, probably in the courthouse, that I'm thinking of), so I'm glad we seem to be on the same page.
Yes, welcome to my life! I haven't written this much fic in such a short time in YEARS! And I'm loving it, although sometimes it scares me a little just how much I keep thinking about that next story or scene to write.
Different Anon:
I think it's a good thing! I'm impatient when it comes to waiting for updates but I started writing specifically for this fandom and now I'm like holy hell how do people write so fast???
I think it's a good thing! I'm impatient when it comes to waiting for updates but I started writing specifically for this fandom and now I'm like holy hell how do people write so fast???
I'm the same omg I haven't written fic in so long and now I've written almost 10 in like a month? Which for me is insane, even if a lot of them are pretty short...
Ah okay, that's comforting then :')
I don't get the Vladimir and Wesly love either and I think everyone agrees that Fisk isn't good. I like Karen and I want to be able to have a critical discussion about her actions without it turning into wank. She's a very nuanced character and we don't know much about her.
No, I'm not talking about Karen, but the group that hates Daredevil and that guy Zack finding out.
No, but I bet we could blame Foggy...
Nope, not his fault either. People aren't responsible for the actions of other people.
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