daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

I co-sign this ^^

So I have a query -

Since they don't really fit into the (mostly dead) Avengers kink meme can the other Defenders set up shop around here? I mean this in the nicest way but Daredevil has going for it that it has a really really pretty brooding white boy at the head of the show with an extensive canon behind him wheras Jessica Jones and Luke Cage have a lot against them out of the starting gate both because they are from marginalized groups and because their canon is a bit smaller (or a lot in Jessica's case). And this meme already seems to have people who are into the other street level heroes anyway and are crossing them over even though they haven't been in the MCU yet.

If that seems like stretching the meme thin that's fine. I just think it would be logical for the Defenders side of the fandom to stick together in some way.

nonny, can you tell me exactly where the Foggy tears are because I have looked and looked for tear tracks and have found either just the crying crumply face or what looks like tearful eyes, but it doesn't seem like there are any tears that actually fall? In that scene when Foggy is looking out the window and he takes the deep breath before he asks Matt that question about whether he blew up the buildings, he looks more angry to me than sad, maybe angry because he needs to be resolute but I still don't see tear tracks.

Did you ever read Roulette? I haven't read the issue you're talking about and I think Roulette came out way before but it's also a great dynamic between Matt and Frank and the decisions they make.

nayr but um, Matt and Foggy sort of have a breakup in Waid's run? Well ymmv here because while I think Bendis put more forethought into his run and the arc of Matt being outed as DD (and the depression as culmination of so many deaths and betrayals by people Matt cared about or loved, and his paranoia and borderline madness after Kingpin finally destroys almost every aspect of Matt's life), but part of the reason why Foggy not trusting Matt or having faith in him and walking out on him in Waid's run (where Matt was completely set up) was, for me, a pretty awful thing to deal with after everything that had happened between them in Bendis's run. I thought surely Foggy would have learned to trust or have faith in Matt after all their years together, after all the other times he's been wrong to walk out on Matt? And he might have had the best of intentions for doing it, wanting to force Matt to get psychiatric help, but for him to do it by yanking away not only his friendship and support but also Nelson & Murdock to do it was, I thought, one of the worst decisions Foggy's ever made. If you think your friend needs counselling or therapy, you don't kick them to the curb and tell them to forget your number until they do what you want them to do and you find their actions acceptable again. Not if you love them anyway. I love Matt and Foggy, and they've had 50+ years of being the occasional dick to each other, but this latest awful on Foggy's part was omg, heartbreaking for me. The way the run ends is almost enough to make me forgive, but not forget.

I'm sure it's nowhere near as bad if you haven't read the relentless dirge of Matt's life between Miller and Waid, but if you're kind of considering every run to be adding to the Matt and Foggy history, then Waid's run is playing on all the drama that's come before, and it's not nearly as lighthearted as some fen make it out to be. On the surface, maybe, but underneath it's pretty damn dark. Like I said, ymmv.

ANON I AM SO GLAD I WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE UNBELIEVABLY UPSET BY THIS

like, i'm sorry, credit to people who can enjoy the punisher but that particular game with matt was such an unbelievable display of hypocrisy that it cemented my intense dislike for the punisher? all that really showed was that the act of killing is an incredibly hard decision to make and can permanently bloody one's hands in their own eyes (iirc matt was crying because he really did not wish to kill frank) and that frank was basically telling matt that he's just like him at the end of the day but he's really Not? like. the amount of emotional trauma and distress that situation would put matt through decidedly does not make him comparable to frank, omfg.

SORRY THIS IS GETTING AWAY FROM ME BUT BASICALLY i am with you, anon, i hate frank for doing that to matt and i doubt i'll like netflix frank castle better lmfao

I was thinking about exactly this last night. I'd really like it if the meme could be extended when the other shows start coming out (especially because it seems that shows with female leads rarely have very active kinkmemes, unless there's an obvious m/m pairing). It also means that this meme will have a lot of fuel, which is great, because I think we have a lot of fun over here...I guess it just depends what other people/the mod think.

OP: seriously. i've not read much of their interaction so i know i'm not working with all the evidence but that issue right now is pretty much a ship-sinker. it's like a fucked up, sadistic, judgmental morality play (note frank pretty much goading matt into taking the shot).

i did find it interesting that matt gave up his morals because he believed that strongly in the law. but goddammit, frank castle, fuck you.

I poked the mod about this just to let them know that we're thinking about it.

http://daredevilkink.dreamwidth.org/386.html?thread=9784194#cmt9784194

It may be that people want to take a wait and see approach to Jessica Jones before opening that up here, but you know that there are people who are going to binge the show in two days and immediately start writing fic, so it's worth thinking about early. And they've already said it will crossover with Daredevil in some way anyway.

ayrt: YES YES YES EXACTLY YES dude i thought i was going nuts here bc i swear for a while i was the only person who deeply disliked frank and had frank/matt as a massive notp, like, you exactly get why i could not be on board? a lot of their interactions involve frank screwing with matt in ways that are deeply distressing for matt but enjoyable for frank and it made alarm bells go off in my head because i really dislike reading that kind of dynamic in fic?

i'm interested in how they'll interact in-show, for sure, especially since they're skipping straight to the "matt kicks frank In The Face" bit so i'm sure we'll get some good stuff of daredevil beating the shit out ot the punisher.

AND i'm just gonna. leave my url here in case we're not following each other bc i would rly like to know who you are dude i'm not even joking: mattmurderdocks.tumblr.com

AYRT I know for me that I'm going to binge watch the hell out of Jessica Jones and I will want fic right away so I will want a meme early if there is going to be one. Even if the show isn't as good as it looks I think there will still be people who want to write for it and include the other Defenders.

This is what I mean too. I want the meme to stay alive and I think having more fuel can only keep it alive!

Which issues/year did that come out? Is it Punisher or DD?

I'm not into anything Marvel except Daredevil, but I'm happy with this if you guys don't have any other meme to go to. :D

The winners have been announced on the challenge post!

http://daredevilkink.dreamwidth.org/3577.html?thread=9819897#cmt9819897

It should be 'doctora' (if it's indeed a woman. It's doctor for a man). Also depending on what country you are, most doctors would use formal 'usted' instead of tu.

So...

"Señor Murdock? Soy la doctora Mendez. Puede oírme?"

"Sí."

"Bien. Sabe dónde está?"

"El hospital...?"

"Eso es. Está a salvo."

BTW, I'm a spanish speaking doctor.

I'm all for it, whatever that's worth.

NAYRT but if they meant this scene, there were no tears. I don't know what they're talking about either. Foggy makes crying faces and his eyes look teary a couple of times but I never noticed tear tracks, not even when he was full tilt 'I only ever needed my friend.' Someone please prove I'm wrong, that would be cool.

http://charliecoxie.tumblr.com/post/130039079383

I didn't think anyone would respond to this! You basically did describe my feelings- I was being a bit flippant about it in the comment you replied to but yeah. Overall I just thought that plot sucked and it clogs up too much of the front half of volume 3. It also really stretches my suspension of disbelief about what Foggy thinks Matt would do as a mentally ill person. Like mentally ill Matt has lashed out at his enemies when backed into a corner but even when psychotic he has never dug up someone's remains. For me that immediately screams foul play and I would be more likely to suspect someone was trying to fuck with Matt.

For anyone interested, Tee-Fury has a Daredevil T-Shirt on sale for $11 for the next 16 hours here: http://www.teefury.com/hell-s-kitchen-devil

I think it's kinda cool.

Thank you!

NAYRT

To each their own but Devil By the Horns was pretty goddamn ridiculous and was written by another author that thinks Frank is just a mindless killing machine that hates Matt. The Punisher is a lot deeper than that but because he's insistently lethal most people (like Joss Whedon) mindlessly reduce him to...well, what we saw here.

If you know you're not working with enough evidence then you really need to go out and find more evidence. If you want it in bite sized format then I suggest checking out this tumblr: http://punisherwarjournal.tumblr.com/

It goes deep into Frank's character and discusses what makes Frank himself and not just a mindless asshole.

So chill out. Read up. People aren't obligated to love Frank, he's a very difficult character to love, but this is ridiculous and you people need to calm down.

SA

And just to clarify, I know that Ennis is seminal and that he's done great things with Frank but this macho bullshit that he keeps pushing into his comics really fucks with characters and leads to the foolishness we saw here.

YMMV on characterization but I never liked Ennis's Marvel Knight's run and the less we see of it the better. His MAX comics were much better, deeper and serious, and it wasn't subject to all this...stuff.

ayrt! Yes, sorry, I have really love every run of DD (even the first cracky one), but seem to have a lot to say about various little issues. Sigh. Just take my words with a grain of salt.

It also really stretches my suspension of disbelief about what Foggy thinks Matt would do as a mentally ill person.

If you mean the mental illness of Matt's canonical depression, then yeah, they've not handled it well in the past but especially poorly in V3 (a little in V4 even) and I don't even know why? I don't understand some of the choices they made or voiced through the characters, especially Foggy. Every time in the past Foggy has run out on Matt or fired him from the practice he's come around to say how sorry he was, how he was so wrong, how he should know better blah blah blah. None of which has ever drastically changed Matt Murdock. Foggy may not always understand Matt's actions (Foggy may love Matt, but he's never going to fully understand him on some levels), but Matt's gonna Matt. I'm surprised that Waid, who's spoken of his own depression, had Foggy calling Matt out on being a reckless idiot during the Bendis run and making the mad choice to fight the press and lie about the truth of Matt being DD, when, uhh, that was Foggy's idea. Matt wanted to come out and admit he was DD during the Bendis run and it was Foggy who said NO WE FIGHT THIS YOU CAN'T ADMIT YOU ARE DD YOU DENY DENY DENY AND WE SUE EVERYBODY and Matt LISTENED to Foggy, so I wasn't sure wtf that retconning was all about? Maybe it was because Waid made Matt coming out such a cornerstone in his own run, who knows.

At Matt's lowest point when he'd lost everything and was paranoid (is it paranoia if they're really trying to kill you?) homeless and heartbroken and had left NY to go sort himself out far away from anyone he could endanger (but cared enough to leave T'Challa to watch over HK), Matt was still helping perfect strangers, sacrificing himself to protect the defenseless unwashed masses, even though he very much didn't want to, he still couldn't help getting involved. My point is that the DD costume doesn't matter, NY or HK doesn't even matter, his mental state essentially does not matter: Matt's a hero whether at his very best or his very worst. Which is why I was so ughhhhh about some of the things that were handily glossed over or edited in the Waid run. It's a good run, don't get me wrong because I really enjoyed the heck out of it, but there were a few things that made me cry foul about Matt's history or his relationship with Foggy and I guess I'm not over it yet.

I am looking forward to the next run with Charles Soule, although I understand the Matt and Foggy relationship will be defined in the very first issue. I'm a little anxious.

Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

Re: concentrating while writing?

Inclusiveness of Defenders?

Re: on my 3rd viewing of DD

Re: 'the devil by the horns'

Re: Comic recs?

Re: 'the devil by the horns'

Re: Inclusiveness of Defenders?

Re: 'the devil by the horns'

Re: Inclusiveness of Defenders?

Re: 'the devil by the horns'

Re: Inclusiveness of Defenders?

Re: Inclusiveness of Defenders?

Re: 'the devil by the horns'

Re: Inclusiveness of Defenders?

Minor Character Fic Fest Winners!

Re: Spanish translation

Re: Spanish translation

Re: Inclusiveness of Defenders?

Re: on my 3rd viewing of DD

Re: Comic recs?

Daredevil T-Shirt

Re: Spanish translation

Re: 'the devil by the horns'

Re: 'the devil by the horns'

Re: Comic recs?