daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

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Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

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For Daredevil people are always reccing Waid's recent run which is good but Bendis is my #1. Foggy and Matt sort of have a breakup in DD vol. 3 over Foggy thinking Matt is lying about his mental health BUT honestly it doesn't have nearly the same impact as Foggy in volume 2 actually dealing with Matt being a reckless mentally ill person while trying to keep their practice afloat and protect his own privacy and safety. And none of Matt's girlfriends die or go insane or become prostitutes and he interacts with all the other street heroes of New York City. IMO it's the closest to the show in its essence despite the showrunners cherry picking most of its set pieces from Miller's run.

Must reads of other comics:

Secret Avengers volume 3 (my favorite comic of all time)
New Avengers: The Reunion
Hawkeye (2012) and All New Hawkeye
Avengers Academy
Deadpool (2012)
The Indestructible Hulk (Matt shows up in this one because Mark Waid was writing both titles at the time)
The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl
Giant Size Little Marvel: AvX

I'm sure I have more but this is off the top of my head. You can get all of these on Unlimited except a few of them have runs that aren't finished yet or finished too recently but if you can't pay you can get them on viewcomic.com
Spider-Gwen

nayr but um, Matt and Foggy sort of have a breakup in Waid's run? Well ymmv here because while I think Bendis put more forethought into his run and the arc of Matt being outed as DD (and the depression as culmination of so many deaths and betrayals by people Matt cared about or loved, and his paranoia and borderline madness after Kingpin finally destroys almost every aspect of Matt's life), but part of the reason why Foggy not trusting Matt or having faith in him and walking out on him in Waid's run (where Matt was completely set up) was, for me, a pretty awful thing to deal with after everything that had happened between them in Bendis's run. I thought surely Foggy would have learned to trust or have faith in Matt after all their years together, after all the other times he's been wrong to walk out on Matt? And he might have had the best of intentions for doing it, wanting to force Matt to get psychiatric help, but for him to do it by yanking away not only his friendship and support but also Nelson & Murdock to do it was, I thought, one of the worst decisions Foggy's ever made. If you think your friend needs counselling or therapy, you don't kick them to the curb and tell them to forget your number until they do what you want them to do and you find their actions acceptable again. Not if you love them anyway. I love Matt and Foggy, and they've had 50+ years of being the occasional dick to each other, but this latest awful on Foggy's part was omg, heartbreaking for me. The way the run ends is almost enough to make me forgive, but not forget.

I'm sure it's nowhere near as bad if you haven't read the relentless dirge of Matt's life between Miller and Waid, but if you're kind of considering every run to be adding to the Matt and Foggy history, then Waid's run is playing on all the drama that's come before, and it's not nearly as lighthearted as some fen make it out to be. On the surface, maybe, but underneath it's pretty damn dark. Like I said, ymmv.

I didn't think anyone would respond to this! You basically did describe my feelings- I was being a bit flippant about it in the comment you replied to but yeah. Overall I just thought that plot sucked and it clogs up too much of the front half of volume 3. It also really stretches my suspension of disbelief about what Foggy thinks Matt would do as a mentally ill person. Like mentally ill Matt has lashed out at his enemies when backed into a corner but even when psychotic he has never dug up someone's remains. For me that immediately screams foul play and I would be more likely to suspect someone was trying to fuck with Matt.

ayrt! Yes, sorry, I have really love every run of DD (even the first cracky one), but seem to have a lot to say about various little issues. Sigh. Just take my words with a grain of salt.

It also really stretches my suspension of disbelief about what Foggy thinks Matt would do as a mentally ill person.

If you mean the mental illness of Matt's canonical depression, then yeah, they've not handled it well in the past but especially poorly in V3 (a little in V4 even) and I don't even know why? I don't understand some of the choices they made or voiced through the characters, especially Foggy. Every time in the past Foggy has run out on Matt or fired him from the practice he's come around to say how sorry he was, how he was so wrong, how he should know better blah blah blah. None of which has ever drastically changed Matt Murdock. Foggy may not always understand Matt's actions (Foggy may love Matt, but he's never going to fully understand him on some levels), but Matt's gonna Matt. I'm surprised that Waid, who's spoken of his own depression, had Foggy calling Matt out on being a reckless idiot during the Bendis run and making the mad choice to fight the press and lie about the truth of Matt being DD, when, uhh, that was Foggy's idea. Matt wanted to come out and admit he was DD during the Bendis run and it was Foggy who said NO WE FIGHT THIS YOU CAN'T ADMIT YOU ARE DD YOU DENY DENY DENY AND WE SUE EVERYBODY and Matt LISTENED to Foggy, so I wasn't sure wtf that retconning was all about? Maybe it was because Waid made Matt coming out such a cornerstone in his own run, who knows.

At Matt's lowest point when he'd lost everything and was paranoid (is it paranoia if they're really trying to kill you?) homeless and heartbroken and had left NY to go sort himself out far away from anyone he could endanger (but cared enough to leave T'Challa to watch over HK), Matt was still helping perfect strangers, sacrificing himself to protect the defenseless unwashed masses, even though he very much didn't want to, he still couldn't help getting involved. My point is that the DD costume doesn't matter, NY or HK doesn't even matter, his mental state essentially does not matter: Matt's a hero whether at his very best or his very worst. Which is why I was so ughhhhh about some of the things that were handily glossed over or edited in the Waid run. It's a good run, don't get me wrong because I really enjoyed the heck out of it, but there were a few things that made me cry foul about Matt's history or his relationship with Foggy and I guess I'm not over it yet.

I am looking forward to the next run with Charles Soule, although I understand the Matt and Foggy relationship will be defined in the very first issue. I'm a little anxious.

You say such good things I LOVE!

Hmr the thing about Waid and mental illness I've noticed from his comics is that he seems to get straightforward depression really well and not get........everything else. Like I had to stop reading his run of Thunderbolts because as a bipolar person his writing for Norman Osborn as someone who had the answer of needing mood stabilizers drove me up the goddamn wall. It's the same for Matt, really - Matt's mental illness is complex and he nailed a fraction of it and threw the rest out with the bathwater.

"his mental state essentially does not matter: Matt's a hero whether at his very best or his very worst."

To me as a mentally ill person this is genuinely important. Matt's been through unimaginable hardship and not all of it from external factors and no matter how downtrodden or sick he is, he is still driven by a need to save people. I mean how many protagonists in anything have as many mood episodes as Matt as severely as he does and still get to be heroes?

Oh unnecessary retconning. How unnecessary you are. I read Bendis's run in one go back like 2 months ago and by the time I was reading vol 3/4 I had totally forgot that it WAS Foggy's idea because based on Waid's characterization of them both it seems to make sense that it would have been Matt's but you're right. God this reminds me of Lemire's recent backstory work on All New Hawkeye like guys what was the point of this? The one before was good. This is fine I guess but why would you change a neutral out for another neutral? IDEK

I totally agree that Waid's work is fantastic but some of his choices are questionable. After Foggy gets cancer and through volume 4 the work is a lot stronger. But I think Bendis's Daredevil will always be mine - I read a LOT of comics this summer as someone who got Unlimited and really got into comics for the first time and Bendis's run in its broad strokes at least really stuck with me. He took like the good parts of Miller's aesthetic and then threw out all of the really weird shit

I'm having mixed feelings about Soule's run but only because of the anticipation. I don't really like the new costume all that much and I definitely question turning him into a prosecutor for the state. Soule seems knowledgeable though and like he really cares about making something good so we'll see. I mean comics are comics - at worst he'll fuck it up for a while and then someone else will take over and do a nice job.

"has never dug up someone's remains"

Well, there was that time when he dug up Elektra and Foggy catches him. But Matt loved her and he'd been acting crazy all issue. (It didn't help when he started getting psychic flashes from her spiritual battles or something in Elektra Lives Again.) Elektra's death was the catalyst that started Matt's mental break--in Born Again, Kingpin notes there is a fissure in the vigilante's mind and attacks him to increase it.

Frank Miller is an outlier adn should not have been counted.

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