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daredevilkink2016-03-16 07:14 pm
ddk_mod) wrote in daredevilkink2016-03-16 07:14 pm
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Discussion/Off-Topic Post #2
For things that are neither prompts nor questions for the mod. Talk about the show, ask for help finding lost prompts, organise fic fests or whatever else you want. Discuss away!
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Re: Quick post-s2 thoughts
(Anonymous) 2016-03-19 12:20 pm (UTC)(link)My problem is that 6 months have passed before the season opens, and it's clear that Foggy's been giving Matt shit about DD for that whole time. SIX MONTHS. Matt wasn't keeping anything from Foggy until Elektra shows up, that's a relatively short period of time where things just happen quickly, but for 6 stable months Matt's been putting up with angry Foggy blatantly hating on DD, probably daily. For that whole period of time, Foggy doesn't accept Matt for who he is, he doesn't want the vigilante in their lives, he doesn't love Matt unconditionally, he wants him to change to suit Foggy. And in s2 he actually tries to force Matt to give in to Foggy's demands when he threatens him with shutting down the practice. It doesn't go the way he wanted because Matt's only realistic response is to accept it. Foggy wants a different Matt, and Matt can't give Foggy what he wants, there's no way around them separating until either Matt's no longer DD or Foggy can learn to accept Matt for who he is. And that's the part that hurts, that Foggy doesn't realise that it's not only Matt's lying about Elektra that got them to this point, Foggy's also hugely responsible but refuses to see it.
He's not only pushed Matt out of his life but Karen too, but they've all done that to each other, systematically pushed each other away but, this is the thing, Matt takes that final episode step to Karen to show her the side of himself that he's been hiding. He's giving her the choice to accept him, all of him, or not. Personally, I think she will. She's going to hate that he lied but she has no moral ground to stand on with that respect. And she's already in love with both Daredevil AND Matt. Will Nelson & Murdock open again? Idek but I think we know Matt/Karen is going to happen eventually, and that won't come about until Karen knows, and accepts and loves, everything about Matt. Although she'll have to spill her secret too, but after Frank shaking up Matt's life and morals, he'll prob have an easier time accepting Karen as is. My biggest question at this point is how does Foggy come back into the mix? If they're planning on doing the Born Again storyline, then it won't be easy. But it'll be GREAT to watch.
Re: Quick post-s2 thoughts
(Anonymous) 2016-03-19 12:25 pm (UTC)(link)Now THAT would rock.
Re: Quick post-s2 thoughts
(Anonymous) 2016-03-19 04:38 pm (UTC)(link)I Agree with you anon.
or Six months Foggy was "supporting" Matt but also he was worried and he was msking all kinds of comments cause that would be what anyone would do in taht case. You support x or y dessicion in someone's life but you can't fully accept it.
In Matt and Foggy's relationship there is noone who is right or wrong. They both screw things up with each other. Matt could never trully trust in Foggy with DD things related and Foggy could never trust Matt again cause he always feel like Matt is hidding something. Foggy made things pretty clear. He wants Matt, he doesn't want DD and Matt was pretty clear too, DD and him are the same person so Foggy either accepts that or walk away and like an annon above said that scene on the second episode with the suit (Let go, You first) was so on point; neitehr wanted to give in to the others expectations and they both knew that this was gonna be the outcome of that.
To the Born Agan angle.
I feel like The Defenders could be the perfect starting point of that storyline. Things could go slowlly, the four of them working together, this and that while we see that in Matt's life things are starting to deteriorate and we go from there to season three and I feel they will replace the Avengers squad that helped Matt in Born Again.
Like in Born Again now that Foggy is not gonna be a constant on Matt's life it will be pretty easy for them to make Matt distrust Foggy even more and believe that Foggy is really working agains him while all that Foggy si doing is trying to help and from tehre we go back to our "happy" N&M days.
I dunno i have so many mix feelings about Matt, Foggy, Karen relatonship. It's really unffair we're probably have to wait almost two years for DD S3.
Side note: My first lenguage is nto english so sorry for any mistakes that could be there.
Re: Quick post-s2 thoughts
(Anonymous) 2016-03-19 09:46 pm (UTC)(link)Yes, the way things fell apart for all of them isn't purely Matt Murdock's fault, not anymore because Foggy made the decision to come back into Matt's life and be his supporting friend and business partner even knowing all his issues, now Foggy is implicit in everything DD does but Foggy made that choice, he's there because he wants to be. But a lot of people want to put ALL the blame on Matt because he's the one making the choice to be DD, but I think that's the exact mistake Foggy is guilty of making.
The Matt Foggy issues are like... in a marriage when one partner has hurt the other one in some way and the trust is broken, but they love each other enough to try again. So they talk and there are some rules established and they get back together and work on their relationship, but... the hurt partner never stops making the other one pay for having hurt them, there are constant digs and reminders about how they fucked up, and they hold their continued presence and forgiveness over the head of the other one constantly reminding them that YOU ARE A FUCK UP NUTJOB, and the one who fucked up ends up distancing themselves more and more because even though they both love each other, it's almost like they're kept around so they can be kicked daily, like they're made to pay penance because they fucked up that one time. And that very anger and distance is what chips away at their relationship the second time around. It IS Matt's fault again for not confiding in Foggy about Elektra, especially since she obviously hurt Matt so badly the first time around (and kind of ironic that Matt always seems to come back around to get kicked by people and not get away from them, to just let them hurt him over and over again, maybe he's more of a masochist than we think or is he just that needy that if someone loves him once he'll stay in an unhealthy relationship forever?) but I feel like if Foggy had been willing to accept and forgive Matt for fucking up the first time and not extract a death by a thousand cuts for a year (sorry, showrunners say it was a year between s1 and s2, not 6 months, which makes me facepalm even harder), if he'd actually accepted Matt for who he is without wanting to change Matt, maybe Matt wouldn't have kept that Elektra secret at all. Maybe he'd have been willing to be more open to Foggy. But, maybe not, there's no way to know since it all went to shit so fast. Matt and Foggy definitely needed serious therapy after the last season, they both jumped the gun on getting back together and it kind of blew up in their faces.
You might be right about The Defenders angle. I'm hoping we get a s3. SOMEBODY on the show mentioned how this season is similar to the Empire Strikes Back, and wow, I didn't think they'd go this far but they were fearless to be so brutal with all the characters. Not one character got anything they really wanted, nobody. Foggy wants Matt and he's not getting him, Matt wanted Elektra and she's dead, and Karen wanted so badly for Frank to prove to her that she's not a monster (and she did the same shit to him that Foggy did with Matt, GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER OR I'M OUT, and Frank responded in the same way Matt did with the YOU DO YOU LET ME BE ME - seriously, what did they expect?), and he destroyed that vicarious hope which left Karen sobbing alone. Lots of parallels here between the characters, lot of similar desires, similar faults, lots of incomplete threads, but LOTS of character growth too. It's a sad ending to the season, but it's not the end of the DD story, not at all. They're just going through a rough patch. A very rough patch. ;) And I can't help but think that Netflix knew what they planned for this season and already greenlit a s3 somewhere in order to do this season this way.
Ugh, sorry so wordy. Apparently I have a lot of emotions about this.
Re: Quick post-s2 thoughts
(Anonymous) 2016-03-19 10:43 pm (UTC)(link)Like, Foggy's probably gonna distance himself from Matt, but the decision to close N&M was the bigger deal right? And to me, Foggy didn't actually seem ready to bail on Matt or the firm until Matt STOPPED SHOWING UP FOR A GIANT TRIAL!
Like, to me that was the dealbreaker for him, which is understandable. He seems willing to put up with Matt going out as DD, but then Matt talks them into taking the Punisher trial to begin with despite Foggy clearly having a moral problem with taking it on and Matt projecting, and then Matt literally doesn't show up. He behaves unprofessionally and Foggy realizes that friend or no, their firm can't exist if that's how it's going to go on.
I read him saying to Matt that he wanted Matt to convince him to keep N&M open as that he really wanted Matt to commit not necessarily to not being DD, but to at least being invested in their partnership. And Matt, fairly, couldn't do that.
But Foggy still calls him about the Brett thing. And Foggy still shows up to the building when he hears that it's happening because he cares. So I just didn't get a vibe like their entire friendship was done forever. Just N&M because Foggy realized that he can do better than that professionally and didn't want to have his entire life wrapped up in Matt when Matt's been so unreliable and has so many of his own issues.
Re: Quick post-s2 thoughts
(Anonymous) 2016-03-20 12:44 am (UTC)(link)Tiny nitpick: It wasn't only Matt who convinced Foggy to take the case, it was Matt and Karen who talked him around. And they were both projecting onto Frank really hard. The vigilante and the murderer, Matt and Karen, the one thing bisecting their relationship and keeping them apart, their secrets. Matt and Karen are SO freaking similar, and Frank is so freaking similar to different parts of them, it's amazing.