daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

1. Okay so people keep on talking about Foggy crushing on Karen and Karen crushing on Matt. I know that happens in the comics but honestly I got NONE of that in the show. I'm wondering if the show was actually trying to imply this and i completely missed it (not the first time it's happened) or if it wasnt the show's intention and this is fan interpretation.

2. what age do you think Fisk, Vanessa and Weasly are?
I've pretty much pinned Matt and Foggy down to late 20s early 30's (with foggy being a little older) and Karen being a little younger than them.
but I have no clue about the good old bad guys. We did get the timeline context from Fisk's childhood backflash but... yeah idk someone please help me out here.

thanks!!!

I'm really confused about the Matt/Karen/Foggy dynamics in canon as well...like I thought Karen/Foggy was building up to be a ~thing, but then Karen does act kind of shy around Matt which makes me think she might like him?? Like she keeps giving him these looks and?? And sometimes it seemed like she liked Foggy and sometimes it didn't. And Foggy definitely seemed to like her but then also Marci, and the way they ended it in the last series made it seem like none of them were interested in each other....

??????? I have no idea what happens in the comics though

Perhaps they're leaving a lot of things open so they have the option to explore different routes in later series or smth...

In the comics ( the specifics of the dynamic kind of depends on ur canon but w/e) Both Matt and Foggy have crushes on Karen, and i think Karen has a crush on Matt. i think they got together in the 60's and i semi-maybe-think matt was going to propose (???? idk) it didn't work out but they got back together later on in the 80's before she died.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was confused because I seriously thought I was missing something (i have a tendancy to just... *shwoop* it all goes straight over my head)
i kind of hope it's just 'everyone has weird confusing feelings for everyone else' (ive had a couple of crushes on people when we start becoming friends and then it fizzzles out maybe it's like that). I kind of hope they don't try and do any iinter-office romance for team avacado's but that's just my personal preference lol.

Omg Karen dies in the comics? Ahhhh!!!!! I hope they don't stick to that >_<

Nah yeah I'm similar with things going over my head (I completely missed all the stuff with Brett?? Like ppl talk about him in fandom all the time and I was fully like 'wait who?????')

I hope it's like that too - I think it'll get awkward if any of them start dating each other (unless it's Matt/Foggy but I live in the real world, unfortunately)

I had to look up for brett too!!! I felt so bad and ashamed that I forgot about him yet he was popping out from time to time in here and me just eerrr.... XDDD

Yeah I felt bad as well haha oooops

There is nothing more boring on a show than "interoffice romance." Nothing.

But also if a show has an office with males and females in it, it's hands down gonna happen. There's no escape :(

my read on it was that basically all of season one was setting up for foggy/karen and matt/claire but also karen has a crush on matt that isn't reciprocated (honestly i don't think it's a love-crush i think it's more infatuation or s/t) but (as far as i read it) this changes with that last hand-holding scene in episode 13 because it kinda looked/felt not-quite-romantic but also not-quite-platonic. (also my take on foggy sleeping with marci is that it was more a i'm-very-sad-and-quite-drunk sort of comfort thing, not necessarily a i'm-still-in-love-with-you thing.)

personally (having never read the comics/having no background info on daredevil at all) i liked matt/claire (she's so real with him i love her) and i really like foggy/karen but i don't dig the inter-office romance thing.

+1 to all of this.

My read on it from the show is that Foggy is pretty into Karen, but Karen is crushing on Matt.

Same. Karen seems a lot like me. She's super cheerful and friendly with people because that's just her personality and then other people take it as her being into them/develop crushed (one-sided Foggy/Karen). Meanwhile the person she's actually attracted too she's not as close with (one-sided Karen/Matt).

about question two: i kind of place wesley/fisk/vanessa around their late 40's (i'm never usually very good at guessing ages so take that with a very large grain of salt) and then as far as fisk's childhood he was 12 in the flashbacks and my first guess is that the flashbacks were set in the 70's (but it's hard to tell since these sorts of shows tend to stay pretty ambiguous time wise) so if we said that his flashbacks were late 70's/early 80's it would make him around 45-47 at my best guess..

OP honestly that makes sense. I sort of placed Fisk in his mid-50's myself but late 40's works too.

i managed to work out that Matt and Foggy were born between 1985-1989 and they're like in their late 20's (like matt's 27 and i headcanon foggy as being a few years older so i place him around 29-30)
which makes sense as a comparison of fisk being at least 20 years older.

that's good to know about the flashback tbh cause i had a hard time placing his age. ill have to rewatch that episode (even though it's SO HARD TO WATCH) (u can say that ffor every episode tho every episode is hard to watch)

i like mid-50's for fisk more than late 40's because to me the flashbacks definitely felt 70's but i'm historically bad with guessing ages so i pushed it more towards late 70's/early 80's. i think you're probably right with fisk being 50-55 (oh! i just realised that fisk's mum is probably like 70 or 80?? (i am so bad at ages) when we see her at the retirement place so mid-50's i think definitely fits!!)

i totally agree w/ you on matt and foggy's ages too (and about foggy being a little older idk i feel it too)

oh man, tbh a lot of fisk's scenes make me a little uncomfy but i can't tell why?? the flashbacks especially tho.
(that's tru, i don't even talk about nelson v murdock i'm trying to block it out that episode is traumatic tbh)

mid-50's also works because it makes sense for vanessa to be in her late 40's and still have the 'fisk is older than her' vibe like was it just me or did anyone else get that vibe??
(might be becaue of the actors atually wilson's actor is 55 and vanessa's is 45 although i place the character at closer to 47)

I think part of it is that Elden is like 37 (so older than cox) but just.. idk there's something about they way they interact?? that reads really 'slight age difference' to me. (and i can totally see foggy having had to wait a few years to start college for like... financial reasons or something)
(also as someone else said to me this is great fuel for potential 'foggy going though his midlife crisis' jokes from matt)

I think part of it is the shows ability to have the audience buy into the image Fisk had been trying to create for most of the series, which is really impressive in my mind. Fisk has a real presence to him that makes me feel nervous, like he could actually affect my life personally (also just, specifically the flashbacks. holy shit that's some bullshit to go though :( )

honestly i agree w/ everything you just said esp the bit about foggy being older (i still can't believe elden is 37) i think as well (this is just how i read it) foggy seems like the irresponsible friend that you'd have to stop from drinking fifty milkshakes just for fun but also more responsible than matt???

maybe it's just foggy subconsciously taking on a sort of responsibility for matt (not in an incapable way, but just as much responsibility any sighted person with a blind friend would feel especially for one who turns up bruised every couple days) or maybe he took on an older-sibling type role within his family and it's just how he is naturally?? (i am so here for "old man foggy" jokes from matt despite it only being a couple years difference)

i totally get what you mean with fisk. he truly does creep me out.

just a side note: he gives me the impression that he's a little delayed (when he speaks it's very very deliberate but like the bit with anatoly "you embarrassed me in front of her" it feels a little young??) i'm thinking that's a side effect from his childhood since like you said that kind of bs has to have some sort of lasting impact. but i could be reading into it way wrong?? i feel very sorry for little fisk :(

same anon here: also, i feel like wesley is older than matt + foggy but also significantly younger than fisk. in descending order my take on the ages is fisk/vanessa/wesley/foggy/matt/karen..

what about y'all where do you see them age-wise??

I'm not sure where i stand on weasly. like i always thought of him as being about the same age as karen (who i see as about 24-25?) but... im reconsidering when i think about it.
(she said 'foggy we're the same age' but i thinks he woudl assume that foggy and matt are the same age and when ur that old two years isn't too much of a difference, especially when uve had whatever life experiance karen has had)

significantly younger than fisk for sure.

man ill have to think about this

yea definitely when you're older a couple years age difference doesn't really count for anything as far as other people seeing you as older/younger. when karen said that it probably was a sort of we're all like two years older than each other but it has no bearing on our relationship/doesn't count/doesn't matter etc etc

toby moore who plays wesley is 34 in real life and deborah is 30 but i think it's just mostly characterisation that makes me see the age difference between he and karen.

i can't wait to get actual actual confirmation on ages but i kind of doubt we will - i think they like to keep it ambiguous (and i guess it helps keeping your timeline of events less uncomplicated if no one knows that actual ages of the characters tbh)

Yeah plus Karen would work hard to make it clear that they are on the same level/playingfield even considering age or education differences. (like she'd want to be treated as an equal etc)

see characterisation is why i see them as the same age like... idk there was just something about the way they interacted in episode 11 where it seemed really 'relativly young kid plays up a persona to appear more powerful/older' and idk
shit explanation of my thought processes tbh

yeah i get the impression they aren't going to do the same sort of timeline stuff for daredevil like they did for the wider mcu (butt we can hope... we can dream....)
detailed timelines and floorplans that's all i want out of this show

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Honestly I can't help but see them all as being the real-life ages of their actors. Especially Matt, Foggy, and Karen because there is NO WAY anyone could convince me those guys are supposed to be in their mid-20s with all the 30's wrinkles they've got going on, haha.

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yeah that seems to be their dynamic so much just... like different life experiences but i just love how Matt is the one who pulls foggy back on the relativly insignificant immature/jokey stuff but Foggy is the one who has to constantly ground Mat in terms of the big things and is actually established (in the comics if not in the show as well) as being the person who's far more reponsible and skilled at like... every day things like finances and management. it makes for a really interesting dynamic
(also i just have the most delightful imagining of matt giving foggy a little like... hot rod hotwheels and being like 'for the midlife crisis you will no doubt be experiancing soon' and foggys' just like 'wow you shouldn't have')

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Foggy was the type of guy who just.. adopts all his friends. everyone foggy is ur dad now. u can't fight it its just how this works. ("matt, im not mad im just very disappointed.")

Fisk is powerful and u can really get a sense of his power its just... wow. has an effect.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by delayed.
I think it's possible that due to his trauma certain triggers (such as experiencing anger) make him disassociate or have trouble concentrating, leading to a more deliberate way of talking. or even regression into his childhood.

separately, I know many people interpret Fisk on the TV show as autistic. (due to behaviours such as the delayed/rehearsed speech you mentioned [as a method of coping with discomfort socialising], the adherence to daily routine or his reluctance to make eye contact).
(in providing this example im not trying to associate autism with 'delay' or 'delayed development', only that interpreting the character as autistic provides a different context for the behaviours you noted)

i think it's what i love most about their relationship, like foggy is so set up to just be totally irresponsible at all times and i'm so glad they didn't just make him this aloof, stupid, comic-relief sort of side-kick. he definitely kicks matt's ass (maybe not literally) about the serious stuff.

'matt, im not mad im just very disappointed." this is SO foggy and i love it. i am so here for dad-that-doesn't-yell-just-gets-very-quiet-and-disappointed foggy (like matt would probably be like "foggy just yell at me i'd feel better if you yelled" but foggy would just cold-shoulder the whole situation)

delayed was definitely not the right word, i didn't know exactly how to verbalise what i meant. oh!! i didn't realise people had interpreted him as autistic, so i definitely didn't mean to cause offence at all!! now that you mention it i could see why people have interpreted him like that. i just figured it was a trait he'd developed as a resulting factor from what went down when he was a kid.

I appreciate that at any given moment foggys willing to go down the serious path or the irresponsible path (or even both at the same time) like you gotta appreciate that dedication to versatility. .
personally i love the fact that the show made the main guys all enormous dorks. like even matt. i love that he laughs and it's clear that he makes stupid jokes and has fun and just.. dynamic characters I appreciate that.

nah don't worry anon, i just wanted to make it clear what I meant on my end because I could tell u were having trouble describing what you meant and I didn't want there to be any miscommunication.
I think the traits can easily be either or even a combination of both trauma and autism. I guess it really depends on where you want to go with it

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