daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

honestly i agree w/ everything you just said esp the bit about foggy being older (i still can't believe elden is 37) i think as well (this is just how i read it) foggy seems like the irresponsible friend that you'd have to stop from drinking fifty milkshakes just for fun but also more responsible than matt???

maybe it's just foggy subconsciously taking on a sort of responsibility for matt (not in an incapable way, but just as much responsibility any sighted person with a blind friend would feel especially for one who turns up bruised every couple days) or maybe he took on an older-sibling type role within his family and it's just how he is naturally?? (i am so here for "old man foggy" jokes from matt despite it only being a couple years difference)

i totally get what you mean with fisk. he truly does creep me out.

just a side note: he gives me the impression that he's a little delayed (when he speaks it's very very deliberate but like the bit with anatoly "you embarrassed me in front of her" it feels a little young??) i'm thinking that's a side effect from his childhood since like you said that kind of bs has to have some sort of lasting impact. but i could be reading into it way wrong?? i feel very sorry for little fisk :(

same anon here: also, i feel like wesley is older than matt + foggy but also significantly younger than fisk. in descending order my take on the ages is fisk/vanessa/wesley/foggy/matt/karen..

what about y'all where do you see them age-wise??

I'm not sure where i stand on weasly. like i always thought of him as being about the same age as karen (who i see as about 24-25?) but... im reconsidering when i think about it.
(she said 'foggy we're the same age' but i thinks he woudl assume that foggy and matt are the same age and when ur that old two years isn't too much of a difference, especially when uve had whatever life experiance karen has had)

significantly younger than fisk for sure.

man ill have to think about this

yea definitely when you're older a couple years age difference doesn't really count for anything as far as other people seeing you as older/younger. when karen said that it probably was a sort of we're all like two years older than each other but it has no bearing on our relationship/doesn't count/doesn't matter etc etc

toby moore who plays wesley is 34 in real life and deborah is 30 but i think it's just mostly characterisation that makes me see the age difference between he and karen.

i can't wait to get actual actual confirmation on ages but i kind of doubt we will - i think they like to keep it ambiguous (and i guess it helps keeping your timeline of events less uncomplicated if no one knows that actual ages of the characters tbh)

Yeah plus Karen would work hard to make it clear that they are on the same level/playingfield even considering age or education differences. (like she'd want to be treated as an equal etc)

see characterisation is why i see them as the same age like... idk there was just something about the way they interacted in episode 11 where it seemed really 'relativly young kid plays up a persona to appear more powerful/older' and idk
shit explanation of my thought processes tbh

yeah i get the impression they aren't going to do the same sort of timeline stuff for daredevil like they did for the wider mcu (butt we can hope... we can dream....)
detailed timelines and floorplans that's all i want out of this show

i may have totally forgotten to factor in episode 11 + i agree with you that that puts them more around the same age characterisation-wise. nah i think i get what you mean!! karen is so not here (and neither am i tbh) for being treated like a little girl who can't play with the big boys (not to say she thinks it's bad to be a girl just that she's going to let them all know that she's capable and able to play with the boys and that there's nothing wrong with being a girl etc) and i think wesley was trying to prove (mostly to himself) that he could play with the big boys too. episode 11 was definitely a big turning point in terms of if you'd possibly underestimated karen.

oh man, the there's another post further down about the floorplans and we've basically decided magic is involved because it's been driving us all insane. but at this point i'd settle for at least the birthdays of the main cast. how old is claire??? i don't even want to think about trying to pin it down???

yeah so like... even if they may not be around the same age i really see weasly and karen as being around the same mentality
(i still have to figure out how old i think weasly is now actually)
yeah and like... i think a lot of it is that karen is in an awkward position. in terms of how she got hired and in terms of... the potential to become a 3rd wheel in nelson and murdock (and im so SO glad that didn't happen) so like... she needs to establish in that that she's got things to give (i think more for herself than anything. i mean ud be jangled up after being framed for murder and people trying to murder.. her... she'd wnat to feel confident in something)

idk if it's because both claire and foggy act as protectors for Matt but I see claire as being around the same age as Foggy, maybe a year older/younger. (actor is 36 btw)
i thought i had the floorplan all figured out and then someone brought up the extra door/ bathroom and i was just like *throws my hands in the air*

i totally dig what you mean re: wesley and karen that makes a lot of sense.

yeah!! i was so scared they were going to turn her into sort of the damsel in distress/constantly going to foggy or matt for reassurance and i am so so thankful they didn't do that. as much as i'd love matt to find out what happened with karen and wesley i'd love to see where this takes karen w/o daredevil getting involved and solving it all for her- i mean eventually i'm sure he will get involved but i don't want karen's power to be taken away from her. karen is kick-ass and i'm so psyched to see where it all goes in season 2.

i think when i imagine what might have happened if we'd seen foggy and claire together the night matt spends half-dead on the couch i see them as reacting similarly and that does make me place them at sort of the same age. if i had to choose i'd probably put claire at a year or two older but that's a total guess.

so.many.doors in such a relatively small space the floorplans are too stressful

Honestly I can't help but see them all as being the real-life ages of their actors. Especially Matt, Foggy, and Karen because there is NO WAY anyone could convince me those guys are supposed to be in their mid-20s with all the 30's wrinkles they've got going on, haha.

The show tells you that Matt is 30, yo

Does it? :O Where? I totally missed this.

ooh i missed it too but it fits. (i don't know official timelines or anything so i could be way wrong) i assume matt was ten or eleven when stick found him at the orphanage and then when stick shows up again matt says "you were gone for 20 years" which puts him right at 30

Yeah. I see Matt as around 32. Blinded at 9. Had enough time to adapt really well and become very fluent with Braille before Jack was murdered, so I'm putting that at around 10. Had enough time to become scary proficient at martial arts with Stick, to the point that he's flipping all the hell over the place while sparring. Even with intensive, lifestyle-type training, I'd give that 2 years, so Stick leaves when he's 12ish, which the show tells us was 20 years ago, making Matt 32.

yeah that seems to be their dynamic so much just... like different life experiences but i just love how Matt is the one who pulls foggy back on the relativly insignificant immature/jokey stuff but Foggy is the one who has to constantly ground Mat in terms of the big things and is actually established (in the comics if not in the show as well) as being the person who's far more reponsible and skilled at like... every day things like finances and management. it makes for a really interesting dynamic
(also i just have the most delightful imagining of matt giving foggy a little like... hot rod hotwheels and being like 'for the midlife crisis you will no doubt be experiancing soon' and foggys' just like 'wow you shouldn't have')

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Foggy was the type of guy who just.. adopts all his friends. everyone foggy is ur dad now. u can't fight it its just how this works. ("matt, im not mad im just very disappointed.")

Fisk is powerful and u can really get a sense of his power its just... wow. has an effect.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by delayed.
I think it's possible that due to his trauma certain triggers (such as experiencing anger) make him disassociate or have trouble concentrating, leading to a more deliberate way of talking. or even regression into his childhood.

separately, I know many people interpret Fisk on the TV show as autistic. (due to behaviours such as the delayed/rehearsed speech you mentioned [as a method of coping with discomfort socialising], the adherence to daily routine or his reluctance to make eye contact).
(in providing this example im not trying to associate autism with 'delay' or 'delayed development', only that interpreting the character as autistic provides a different context for the behaviours you noted)

i think it's what i love most about their relationship, like foggy is so set up to just be totally irresponsible at all times and i'm so glad they didn't just make him this aloof, stupid, comic-relief sort of side-kick. he definitely kicks matt's ass (maybe not literally) about the serious stuff.

'matt, im not mad im just very disappointed." this is SO foggy and i love it. i am so here for dad-that-doesn't-yell-just-gets-very-quiet-and-disappointed foggy (like matt would probably be like "foggy just yell at me i'd feel better if you yelled" but foggy would just cold-shoulder the whole situation)

delayed was definitely not the right word, i didn't know exactly how to verbalise what i meant. oh!! i didn't realise people had interpreted him as autistic, so i definitely didn't mean to cause offence at all!! now that you mention it i could see why people have interpreted him like that. i just figured it was a trait he'd developed as a resulting factor from what went down when he was a kid.

I appreciate that at any given moment foggys willing to go down the serious path or the irresponsible path (or even both at the same time) like you gotta appreciate that dedication to versatility. .
personally i love the fact that the show made the main guys all enormous dorks. like even matt. i love that he laughs and it's clear that he makes stupid jokes and has fun and just.. dynamic characters I appreciate that.

nah don't worry anon, i just wanted to make it clear what I meant on my end because I could tell u were having trouble describing what you meant and I didn't want there to be any miscommunication.
I think the traits can easily be either or even a combination of both trauma and autism. I guess it really depends on where you want to go with it

my fave thing about this show is that the male characters have an actual spectrum of emotions and that all their societally-deemed less-masculine emotions don't physically manifest as an outburst of anger. i'm a sucker for nelson vs murdock because typically (and esp not these types of shows) we don't get to see male characters crying - and when we do it's usually covered up. we've seen foggy and matt both openly cry and i think it's so great and like way healthy too??

i love the humour in the show too, foggy and matt are so great together it's so fun and it makes me wish i was friends w/ them because you know they would have had the best time in college!! (honestly i could watch an entire season of college era matt and foggy)

yeah the way you described it was pretty much exactly what i wanted to say tbh and i agree that it all depends on which way you read the text. i'm glad i didn't offend :)

i know i'm super late to this party but also fisk's actor has autism. idk if he was projecting any of that onto the character (d'onofrio has referred to fisk as childish so i don't think i could go further into this w/o getting uncomfortable b/c i'm autistic myself and would rather not someone's autistic traits be referred to as that, but d'onofrio has the right to speak abt it any way he wishes) but yeah that may explain why ppl were interpreting him that way.

also yes! i keep saying that despite matt having a flair for the dramatic and being better at wowing the courtroom assembly, foggy's far better at financing, research, and just generally compartmentalizing. he's one of those guys who seems like a total goofball at first but then you find out he's the one pretty much running things at his job. so while foggy knows matt may be more charasmatic, he's basically the one sidestage mouthing lines to him.

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