(frozen comment) Re: Um. Ableism?

(Anonymous) 2016-01-14 02:14 am (UTC)(link)
Just to probably make half the people this thread angry all over again...

Since this is, after all, the Daredevil kink meme, do people consider it ableist when someone says, "I must be blind, it was right in front of me the entire time, why couldn't I find it?"

(frozen comment) Cultural Appropriation?

(Anonymous) 2016-01-14 04:20 am (UTC)(link)
Is is cultural appropriation for Matt to be Catholic? Because he's white and the church is a very Hispanic heavy group? Like the Pope is Hispanic.

(frozen comment) Re: Cultural Appropriation?

(Anonymous) 2016-01-14 08:06 am (UTC)(link)
*sigh*...

(frozen comment) Re: Um. Ableism?

(Anonymous) 2016-01-14 08:08 am (UTC)(link)
I'd ask that question on a forum for blind/visually impaired people instead of here. Higher chance on actually finding someone who could give you a first-hand answer.

Re: Comics! What are your favourite non-Marvel-Unlimited arcs?

(Anonymous) 2016-01-14 08:25 pm (UTC)(link)
About half of Ann Nocenti's run tragically isn't on there which is a shame since I love her. Daredevil: Last Rites by Chichester is also pretty vital imo that's #297-300. I haven't read his whole run yet. If you haven't read Alias yet you should because he shows up in that. If you're interested in Foggy's family, Karl Kesel wrote an arc about it but it's godawful. Pretty much everything after Chichester's run kinda sucks and some of his later stories have some truly terrible art. But definitely read Nocenti's run bc all her stories are pretty golden and her artists were all wonderful.

Re: Comics! What are your favourite non-Marvel-Unlimited arcs?

(Anonymous) 2016-01-14 11:15 pm (UTC)(link)
oh, thanks for that detailed answer! I watched Jessica Jones and was thinking of hunting down alias :) which story lines did nocenti write again, refresh my memory, please...?^^°

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 03:22 am (UTC)(link)
Uh, there's definitely more than three Foggy rapes Matt fics out there. (This is where I complain bitterly about the crap marriage between fanfiction and tumblr.) But definitely Foggy tends to rape Matt less than everybody else in the Marvel fandom, so, there's that I guess?

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 03:41 am (UTC)(link)
And I'm constantly weirded out that there isn't more dark, subterfuge-y Foggy in fic because I honestly felt like Foggy was portrayed with a whole dark canon creeper side complete with alcoholism and anger issues, anger issues he took straight to Marci and expressed by having implied rough sex with her when he was pissed and hurt over Matt lying to him. The reason fandom hasn't gotten upset about that is because Marci apparently liked it (and she applies that's not his usual thing in bed, too).

Before anybody gets upset with ME, please let me say I love Foggy as he is, warts and all. He's nuanced and hiding a LOT and the things he's hiding, his time in the bar when he's suddenly snappy at Karen, the same woman who he wouldn't stop hitting on in spite of her working for him (uh, sexual harassment is a thing, you guys)? I felt like those moments from Foggy were some of the most revealing moments we got about him, who he really is when he isn't trying to be funny or flip or ON trying to impress anybody. Quite honestly the show doesn't give him much depth so that short burst where we see him be real, omg I ate that up with a spoon. So good. But I see a lot of creeper, hidden-depths Foggy on the show and it was mostly played off for laughs. I desperately am hoping for more serious Foggy in S2 and I want to know what he's hiding in all those dark corners we barely saw in S1. I also just wish there was more dark Foggy in fics. Not necessarily Foggy raping Matt (although I can totally buy into Foggy pulling the angry sex thing with Matt and Matt just letting him do whatever because guilt), but just more introspective character fics on what makes Foggy FOGGY, where that thick dark streak comes from, where the alcoholism started and why it's a coping mechanism, etc. I wish people WOULD write more dark Foggy that doesn't need to have anything to do with Matt or Karen or Marci, but he rarely gets dense character fic all to himself.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 05:08 am (UTC)(link)
Author of one of the few Foggy and Rosalind Sharpe fics around saying I 100% support the above nonnie.

I post a ton of Foggy-related prompts on this meme precisely because I love exactly the things pointed out, the tiny little hints we get that even if he's not hiding something, he may be as fucked up as Matt or Karen.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 08:07 am (UTC)(link)
But the OP was specifically talking about a current trend on the meme. I mean, in the overall fandom there are more than 3 fics where Matt rapes Foggy. I still wouldn't call either a real trend, especially since on the meme the three recent ones the OP is referring to all came from the same original prompt...

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 11:37 am (UTC)(link)
And then it kept getting prompted and people kept discussing it. You doesn't need a list of full blown fics to point out that hey, here's an idea that people keep digging into. (Like the slave fic. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same handful of people, tbh.)

I need fluff ;___;

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 01:58 pm (UTC)(link)
*sobs*
I've ran out of fluff to read. Someone hold me!

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 02:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Honestly, the meme is just so slow at the moment that any slight uptick in activity feels like a big new fandom trend (doubly so if it happens to be something you're just not that into *shrug*). Especially because there only seems to be a handful of people who are regulars right now.

Like, I'm here wondering how so many people know so much about pokemon but really, there's not actually that much pokemon going on. Or sugar daddy stuff, which seems to have gotten a little popular again. Or, you know, any other idea that has gotten more than a single comment the last few days.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 07:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Any time someone makes reference to how they believe so few people in fandom are actually interested in X, they're trying to dismiss the value of X. It doesn't matter if 2 or 2k people are here to discuss a thing, please stop low-key kink shaming.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 07:53 pm (UTC)(link)
It matters when the topic of conversation is trends and the overall popularity of certain subjects. Pointing out that only a relatively few number of people prefer a Thing but happen to have loud 'voices' about it is absolutely valid. That's not kinkshaming.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 08:17 pm (UTC)(link)
I feel like people discount Foggy's darkness because it's never explained on the show. We get entire episodes devoted to explaining what makes Matt tick, we get a lot of the same for Karen, we even get the same for Fisk and the Ranskahov's, but we only see Foggy being mostly a big funny facade and a few moments of startling WTFery without a back story. Foggy says he doesn't have any secrets but I don't believe him for a second. No character has that much hidden darkness without a reason. No good writer would ever allow that. :) I'm so thankful for the great writers in this fandom who have brought me much happiness whilst I wait for s2.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 10:27 pm (UTC)(link)
Ehh, I don't think kinkshaming is the right word. It's not kinkshaming to say that x kink is factually not that common.

However I am getting annoyed with people trying to dismiss writers and their fans by saying/implying they're just a small group of loud outsiders. I've seen a fair few people (lbr)complaining about prompts they don't like (ESPECIALLY the slavery threads lately) and so many people defending the meme like "oh no, that's that weird group, we aren't like that lol". Which, I imagine, would fucking suck to read if you were part of that group.

We're all part of the same fandom space and we're all just trying to have fun. There are no rules being broken here just because someone is having more fun than you about something you don't enioy. And if you don't want to read someone's work, scroll. Or, you know, start a conversation about what *you're* interested in, instead. Do something productive instead of trying to squash other people's fun.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 11:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Your example is good because there's definitely only two, maybe three, people in the pokemon thread but if they'd not bothered to identify themselves every time it would definitely look like there's a load more.

I think if someone did a survey right now of people who use this meme, and had a question about who uses/posts on it regularly, I'd be surprised if we got more than 10-20 people. With that in mind, anything more than say 3 of those people like is going to look insanely popular compared to everything else because it's so slow.

Not to say that what they do like wouldn't be popular if the meme was busy. Just that right now it's kinda hard to tell one way or the other.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 11:28 pm (UTC)(link)
one of the slave-prompt fillers here: Nope, not me. I much prefer Foggy as The Only Sane Man in my fics, desperately trying to bring order into a total clusterfuck world. I, uh, generally shy away from dark!character fics in general, no matter whether it's Matt, Foggy, Karen or anyone. The show and the comics are dark enough for me, I come to the fandom for fun and fluff. ;p (no idea whether the other slave fic writers are into dark!Foggy, though or have anything to do with the prompting...)

Re: I need fluff ;___;

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 11:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Tell us about your favourite fluff fics and why you liked them! Maybe someone has recommendations if you tell us what your taste is like :)

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-15 11:53 pm (UTC)(link)
It's really annoying to me as someone who likes slavefic (and other fic) that we keep getting constantly put as 'the few weirdos' on the meme. Like, it's totally fine if you hate it, but honestly it's this weird undercurrent of resentment or whatever. If you don't like that stuff, just scroll past. We're all here to have fun and not go around pretending like any of our tastes are inherently better.

Re: I need fluff ;___;

(Anonymous) 2016-01-16 12:37 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, oh man. Okay, so I ship Matt/Foggy and Matt/Foggy/Karen equally, and i love sick fic, and this is fic is one of my favourites since I joined the fandom about two months ago: An investment in tissues http://archiveofourown.org/works/4002358

And I think I'd class this as my second favourite, even though it's a bit on the angstmuffin side, Mr Houdini, you're a freak show: http://archiveofourown.org/works/4952515.

And one of the first fics I read that I've not found since, cos it was on a rec list on tumblr, was where Foggy wrote a list of why Matt's so great, but Matt finds out and I can't remember the ending. But I'm sure it ended fine.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-16 12:39 am (UTC)(link)
I've never heard of the slave fic fans being referred to as 'the few weirdos', though?? Honestly, the only thing I've seen was people saying that there aren't actually that many individual people creating that kind of fic in comparison to the perceived volume of stuff (fics, comments, discussion) being churned out. There's no value judgment attached to that, it's just an observation a few people have made. TBH, that comment was the first time I've seen someone say anything negative about that group and... it's coming from someone who identifies as a slave fic fan? That feels like words are being put in people's mouths.

It's an anon meme and people get antsy about kinkshaming, so I get why it's sometimes easy to see insults in these things, but. Not everything is an insult.

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-16 12:58 am (UTC)(link)
slave-fic writer here: I think it might have something to do with the fact that the slavery stuff was the first kink that was ever mentioned in the meta? Like, I think there was one post that mainly said 'why is there so much slavery stuff, I'd like to read sth else???' and then a second post agreed, and that was it, then, which, eh. Harmless. I mainly thought 'noooo, for once the meme is chock-full of my fav trope, this is perfect, don't say anything to make it stop/How dare you imply that pretty characters in collars aren't the pinnacle of literary achievement etc' but I couldn't even be bothered to make a comment. Judging by the amount of slavery AU fic existing across many fandoms in general, I also wouldn't ever call writers and readers of it a strange minority. I mean, the tropes I work into my fics don't come outta nowhere :p

Re: Foggy rapes Matt???

(Anonymous) 2016-01-16 02:48 am (UTC)(link)
DA

Maybe not in those exact words but, I still feel that there's been resentment, if not outright value judgements, attached to the conversations that've happened on the discussion post. There was this in the "Direction of the Meme" comment, for example (https://daredevilkink.dreamwidth.org/1097.html?thread=12041801#cmt12041801) where someone was all "bleh" and criticising the fic characters. Also references to stuff like "certain areas" and "certain subjects", in other meta recently. Combine that with how people keep emphasising that current meme trends are only the work of a few people... We all know what these comments are referring to. And in context, they are subtly/not-so-subtly basically saying that it's becoming a problem.