daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

a bathroom!! i can't believe i didn't consider that, it makes a fair amount of sense.

the conference room and kitchenette are definitely where the confusion is. from what i can see there are three doors in the conference room. the one leading from the main/reception area, one that leads from the conference room into foggy's office and another on the opposite wall leading into what i assumed was the corridor but might be a bathroom/supply room etc etc.

i just re-watched the scene with elena at the office + when they're finished matt and foggy walk out the door that leads into the main room, karen follows a minute later but we don't see mrs cardenas leave, so i'm assuming that third door is just another lead into the hallway. maybe there are shared supply closets/bathrooms??? (i don't know how likely that would be???)

i can't find a scene in the kitchenette off the top of my head so that room still remains a mystery to me, i'm sticking with "weird magic office building" until i actually look at it lmao

about question two: i kind of place wesley/fisk/vanessa around their late 40's (i'm never usually very good at guessing ages so take that with a very large grain of salt) and then as far as fisk's childhood he was 12 in the flashbacks and my first guess is that the flashbacks were set in the 70's (but it's hard to tell since these sorts of shows tend to stay pretty ambiguous time wise) so if we said that his flashbacks were late 70's/early 80's it would make him around 45-47 at my best guess..

The kitchinette is pretty well visible in the episode after Karen introduces Foggy to Ben (I don't remember the specific number tho >_<) and it's definitely on the left side from the entrance door.

But yeah I guess we'll have to put up with Matt & Foggy mysterious magical office because I can't see them showing us the whole thing in season two XD

ohmygod. OP here who never noticed the extra door but now that it's been pointed out im like OHMYGOD?? THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE???
bless u all tbh

OP honestly that makes sense. I sort of placed Fisk in his mid-50's myself but late 40's works too.

i managed to work out that Matt and Foggy were born between 1985-1989 and they're like in their late 20's (like matt's 27 and i headcanon foggy as being a few years older so i place him around 29-30)
which makes sense as a comparison of fisk being at least 20 years older.

that's good to know about the flashback tbh cause i had a hard time placing his age. ill have to rewatch that episode (even though it's SO HARD TO WATCH) (u can say that ffor every episode tho every episode is hard to watch)

Does anybody have any opinion on how Matt's powers work in the comics vs how they work in the show? In both he has vastly improves sense of hearing, taste, smell, and touch, but his radar sense that features in the comics isn;t mentioned in the series. In the comics he can also do a bunch of other things like read printed text by touch and tell colors by touch and stuff that he doesn't appear to be able to do in the show.

What does everyone think about this? When you write, do you incorporate additional skills from the comics that haven't been mentioned in the TV show but that he may still have, or do you miss them out and stick to established show canon?

in terms of the radar sense and the 'world on fire' I see them as basically being the same thing it's just that the Matt's have two completely different ways of describing it.
(partially because netflix matt is being a flirty little shit with claire but lmao)

Like in waid's run he calls it a tactile sense in that he can 'feel out' everything around him and in terms of visual representations the show and the comics seem to be similar. In that they both involve impressions of the objects and space around them.
(I just think the 'world on fire' is different because the show tried to combine all the senses together in a cohesive way, to create an expression of how matt experiences the world around him) (the comics tend to explain or examine matt's senses as separate entities from what i've seen)

I kind of interpret the whole radar sense thing as human echolocation without making the clicking sounds. Like I was watching some videos from the World Access for the Blind organisation and Daniel Kich and some people said that the brain rewires itself and they train with the echolocation enough that the audio feedback they get helps create a mental image of the space.
Which again, reminds me of visual representations of matt's sensory experiences.

In regards to the 'reading text by touch' and other such skills I kind of like the idea that if he concentrates really hard or under the right circumstances, sure he can do stuff like that. But it's not the most effective way of getting things done and it's kind of a pain in his ass all things told. he doesn't try and do it all too often.

i like mid-50's for fisk more than late 40's because to me the flashbacks definitely felt 70's but i'm historically bad with guessing ages so i pushed it more towards late 70's/early 80's. i think you're probably right with fisk being 50-55 (oh! i just realised that fisk's mum is probably like 70 or 80?? (i am so bad at ages) when we see her at the retirement place so mid-50's i think definitely fits!!)

i totally agree w/ you on matt and foggy's ages too (and about foggy being a little older idk i feel it too)

oh man, tbh a lot of fisk's scenes make me a little uncomfy but i can't tell why?? the flashbacks especially tho.
(that's tru, i don't even talk about nelson v murdock i'm trying to block it out that episode is traumatic tbh)

mid-50's also works because it makes sense for vanessa to be in her late 40's and still have the 'fisk is older than her' vibe like was it just me or did anyone else get that vibe??
(might be becaue of the actors atually wilson's actor is 55 and vanessa's is 45 although i place the character at closer to 47)

I think part of it is that Elden is like 37 (so older than cox) but just.. idk there's something about they way they interact?? that reads really 'slight age difference' to me. (and i can totally see foggy having had to wait a few years to start college for like... financial reasons or something)
(also as someone else said to me this is great fuel for potential 'foggy going though his midlife crisis' jokes from matt)

I think part of it is the shows ability to have the audience buy into the image Fisk had been trying to create for most of the series, which is really impressive in my mind. Fisk has a real presence to him that makes me feel nervous, like he could actually affect my life personally (also just, specifically the flashbacks. holy shit that's some bullshit to go though :( )

IIRC, Matt takes his glove off to run his fingers over the maps in the warehouse in episode 9, which suggests that he can read at least some printed text by touch. But that probably takes a lot of concentration and obviously it's not something he can do in public, so I assume mostly he doesn't bother and there hasn't yet been any reason for him to demonstrate or explain the trick to any of the other characters.

I agree that the "world on fire" thing is just Matt trying (badly and awkwardly) to be poetic about the synthesis of his other senses that he uses to get a picture of the world around him. I figure he probably uses a mix of echolocation, radiating body heat, disrupted air currents, and subtle vibrations from people's weight shifting on floors or the ground. YMMV, obviously!

honestly i agree w/ everything you just said esp the bit about foggy being older (i still can't believe elden is 37) i think as well (this is just how i read it) foggy seems like the irresponsible friend that you'd have to stop from drinking fifty milkshakes just for fun but also more responsible than matt???

maybe it's just foggy subconsciously taking on a sort of responsibility for matt (not in an incapable way, but just as much responsibility any sighted person with a blind friend would feel especially for one who turns up bruised every couple days) or maybe he took on an older-sibling type role within his family and it's just how he is naturally?? (i am so here for "old man foggy" jokes from matt despite it only being a couple years difference)

i totally get what you mean with fisk. he truly does creep me out.

just a side note: he gives me the impression that he's a little delayed (when he speaks it's very very deliberate but like the bit with anatoly "you embarrassed me in front of her" it feels a little young??) i'm thinking that's a side effect from his childhood since like you said that kind of bs has to have some sort of lasting impact. but i could be reading into it way wrong?? i feel very sorry for little fisk :(

same anon here: also, i feel like wesley is older than matt + foggy but also significantly younger than fisk. in descending order my take on the ages is fisk/vanessa/wesley/foggy/matt/karen..

what about y'all where do you see them age-wise??

yeah that seems to be their dynamic so much just... like different life experiences but i just love how Matt is the one who pulls foggy back on the relativly insignificant immature/jokey stuff but Foggy is the one who has to constantly ground Mat in terms of the big things and is actually established (in the comics if not in the show as well) as being the person who's far more reponsible and skilled at like... every day things like finances and management. it makes for a really interesting dynamic
(also i just have the most delightful imagining of matt giving foggy a little like... hot rod hotwheels and being like 'for the midlife crisis you will no doubt be experiancing soon' and foggys' just like 'wow you shouldn't have')

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Foggy was the type of guy who just.. adopts all his friends. everyone foggy is ur dad now. u can't fight it its just how this works. ("matt, im not mad im just very disappointed.")

Fisk is powerful and u can really get a sense of his power its just... wow. has an effect.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by delayed.
I think it's possible that due to his trauma certain triggers (such as experiencing anger) make him disassociate or have trouble concentrating, leading to a more deliberate way of talking. or even regression into his childhood.

separately, I know many people interpret Fisk on the TV show as autistic. (due to behaviours such as the delayed/rehearsed speech you mentioned [as a method of coping with discomfort socialising], the adherence to daily routine or his reluctance to make eye contact).
(in providing this example im not trying to associate autism with 'delay' or 'delayed development', only that interpreting the character as autistic provides a different context for the behaviours you noted)

I'm not sure where i stand on weasly. like i always thought of him as being about the same age as karen (who i see as about 24-25?) but... im reconsidering when i think about it.
(she said 'foggy we're the same age' but i thinks he woudl assume that foggy and matt are the same age and when ur that old two years isn't too much of a difference, especially when uve had whatever life experiance karen has had)

significantly younger than fisk for sure.

man ill have to think about this

yea definitely when you're older a couple years age difference doesn't really count for anything as far as other people seeing you as older/younger. when karen said that it probably was a sort of we're all like two years older than each other but it has no bearing on our relationship/doesn't count/doesn't matter etc etc

toby moore who plays wesley is 34 in real life and deborah is 30 but i think it's just mostly characterisation that makes me see the age difference between he and karen.

i can't wait to get actual actual confirmation on ages but i kind of doubt we will - i think they like to keep it ambiguous (and i guess it helps keeping your timeline of events less uncomplicated if no one knows that actual ages of the characters tbh)

And I don't mean it as something wrong.

I'm just surprised, I've in various fandoms for a long time (I'm old) and this has the unlikely combination of being extremely nice and then asking for prompts of suicide and killing small animals. And it's not just an angst fest, some prompts are both disturbing and fascinating.

Is it to do with the series as a whole being a bit more violent than the rest of the MCU? Or the depressing canon (pre volume 3)

i think it's what i love most about their relationship, like foggy is so set up to just be totally irresponsible at all times and i'm so glad they didn't just make him this aloof, stupid, comic-relief sort of side-kick. he definitely kicks matt's ass (maybe not literally) about the serious stuff.

'matt, im not mad im just very disappointed." this is SO foggy and i love it. i am so here for dad-that-doesn't-yell-just-gets-very-quiet-and-disappointed foggy (like matt would probably be like "foggy just yell at me i'd feel better if you yelled" but foggy would just cold-shoulder the whole situation)

delayed was definitely not the right word, i didn't know exactly how to verbalise what i meant. oh!! i didn't realise people had interpreted him as autistic, so i definitely didn't mean to cause offence at all!! now that you mention it i could see why people have interpreted him like that. i just figured it was a trait he'd developed as a resulting factor from what went down when he was a kid.

Yeah plus Karen would work hard to make it clear that they are on the same level/playingfield even considering age or education differences. (like she'd want to be treated as an equal etc)

see characterisation is why i see them as the same age like... idk there was just something about the way they interacted in episode 11 where it seemed really 'relativly young kid plays up a persona to appear more powerful/older' and idk
shit explanation of my thought processes tbh

yeah i get the impression they aren't going to do the same sort of timeline stuff for daredevil like they did for the wider mcu (butt we can hope... we can dream....)
detailed timelines and floorplans that's all i want out of this show

I appreciate that at any given moment foggys willing to go down the serious path or the irresponsible path (or even both at the same time) like you gotta appreciate that dedication to versatility. .
personally i love the fact that the show made the main guys all enormous dorks. like even matt. i love that he laughs and it's clear that he makes stupid jokes and has fun and just.. dynamic characters I appreciate that.

nah don't worry anon, i just wanted to make it clear what I meant on my end because I could tell u were having trouble describing what you meant and I didn't want there to be any miscommunication.
I think the traits can easily be either or even a combination of both trauma and autism. I guess it really depends on where you want to go with it

i may have totally forgotten to factor in episode 11 + i agree with you that that puts them more around the same age characterisation-wise. nah i think i get what you mean!! karen is so not here (and neither am i tbh) for being treated like a little girl who can't play with the big boys (not to say she thinks it's bad to be a girl just that she's going to let them all know that she's capable and able to play with the boys and that there's nothing wrong with being a girl etc) and i think wesley was trying to prove (mostly to himself) that he could play with the big boys too. episode 11 was definitely a big turning point in terms of if you'd possibly underestimated karen.

oh man, the there's another post further down about the floorplans and we've basically decided magic is involved because it's been driving us all insane. but at this point i'd settle for at least the birthdays of the main cast. how old is claire??? i don't even want to think about trying to pin it down???

my fave thing about this show is that the male characters have an actual spectrum of emotions and that all their societally-deemed less-masculine emotions don't physically manifest as an outburst of anger. i'm a sucker for nelson vs murdock because typically (and esp not these types of shows) we don't get to see male characters crying - and when we do it's usually covered up. we've seen foggy and matt both openly cry and i think it's so great and like way healthy too??

i love the humour in the show too, foggy and matt are so great together it's so fun and it makes me wish i was friends w/ them because you know they would have had the best time in college!! (honestly i could watch an entire season of college era matt and foggy)

yeah the way you described it was pretty much exactly what i wanted to say tbh and i agree that it all depends on which way you read the text. i'm glad i didn't offend :)

yeah so like... even if they may not be around the same age i really see weasly and karen as being around the same mentality
(i still have to figure out how old i think weasly is now actually)
yeah and like... i think a lot of it is that karen is in an awkward position. in terms of how she got hired and in terms of... the potential to become a 3rd wheel in nelson and murdock (and im so SO glad that didn't happen) so like... she needs to establish in that that she's got things to give (i think more for herself than anything. i mean ud be jangled up after being framed for murder and people trying to murder.. her... she'd wnat to feel confident in something)

idk if it's because both claire and foggy act as protectors for Matt but I see claire as being around the same age as Foggy, maybe a year older/younger. (actor is 36 btw)
i thought i had the floorplan all figured out and then someone brought up the extra door/ bathroom and i was just like *throws my hands in the air*

i totally dig what you mean re: wesley and karen that makes a lot of sense.

yeah!! i was so scared they were going to turn her into sort of the damsel in distress/constantly going to foggy or matt for reassurance and i am so so thankful they didn't do that. as much as i'd love matt to find out what happened with karen and wesley i'd love to see where this takes karen w/o daredevil getting involved and solving it all for her- i mean eventually i'm sure he will get involved but i don't want karen's power to be taken away from her. karen is kick-ass and i'm so psyched to see where it all goes in season 2.

i think when i imagine what might have happened if we'd seen foggy and claire together the night matt spends half-dead on the couch i see them as reacting similarly and that does make me place them at sort of the same age. if i had to choose i'd probably put claire at a year or two older but that's a total guess.

so.many.doors in such a relatively small space the floorplans are too stressful

*facepalms* of course there'd be a bathroom somewhere! There might be one down the hall that they share with the Atlas financial guys, or a small one in the offices (maybe between foggy's office and the conference room?) but any office needs a bathroom within easy reach SOMEWHERE. For OH&S purposes if nothing else.

i don't really have any fandom-level experience with the mcu (aside from daredevil) so i can't comment much on that but i figure, like you said, that since the canon is more depressing and dark there's more believability and more of a foothold for the sadistic stuff.

Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

Re: layout of Nelson & Murdock office

Re: questions about the canon

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Re: layout of Nelson & Murdock office

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Matt's abilities in comics and TV

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Re: Matt's abilities in comics and TV

Re: questions about the canon

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the sadism of the fandom as a whole

Re: questions about the canon

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Re: questions about the canon

Re: questions about the canon

Re: layout of Nelson & Murdock office

Re: the sadism of the fandom as a whole