daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #2

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Discussion/Off-Topic Post #2

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who loved it? who hated it? who felt indifferent?

personally, i feel like it was.... the opposite of organic. it all seemed very forced and fairly sudden, sort of like "wait, where is this coming from????" i knew they were gearing towards it esp with that last scene in season one but it still managed to feel way off??? (also i honestly felt more potential between karen and foggy in their last scene that i did with her and matt the whole way through) (ps: how did she not recognise it was him in the warehouse........)

i'm not a fan of romance stuff in general (to be real i am all about angst) so it could just be my bias and i might have not picked it up right so i was curious to see what everyone else was feeling!!

Agreed. I like them in theory, but in practice they seem to lack chemistry? idk. It seems like either they're being shown as "being in love" (via kissing, etc), or they're having an argument, or they're talking about the Problem Of The Week. They're never just... connecting, as people.

Hell, Karen and Frank had more chemistry, imo.

Matt and Karen feel like they'd work is they were bro and sis.

Matt and Frank had more chemistry than Matt/Karen, and they were beating the crap out of each other half the time.

God, I'd read the SHIT out of Karen/Frank stories...

In terms of the development, I'll have to disagree a bit with the sentiments thus far. I think the implied time skip between seasons 1 and 2 make it a bit more believable for me than the literal shoehorning we saw at the end of season 1. I thought Karen's crush was set up fairly early on. (She was all about Matt conversation during a date with Foggy.) Matt's end of things being fleshed out on screen this season was okay - not great - for me too.

What I liked was how they showed both parts of the relationship. The sunny side, if you will - hearts and flowers, romance and sweetness. The dates played well to me as the audience, about as well as any onscreen developing love teaming does. But I liked that there was conflict that was believable and that it stemmed from how similar yet different they were.

The one truly ugh Matt/Karen moment for me wasn't even a scene they shared. It was the talk with Frank at the diner. It was just so anvilicious ~~and it confused my Frank/Karen vibes~~. I did like the line about Frank wishing ~he could just feel that pain again~.

I do wish, to some degree, that Karen's issues weren't only known to her and the audience. So while we know that some of the friction isn't just due to Matt's actions but also her hang-ups and past, all of it's nothing so far to other characters? They're clueless and it's hard to watch. Which I know is just another parallel with Matt's secret-keeping, but at least there's been forces pushing those into the light.

I don't know if I'd call it hypocrisy exactly, but Karen being fed up with being lied to is kind of glaring to me as something I couldn't fully sympathize with. Her past being so buried that only Ben's deep digging got him anything. And Wesley and everything too? Like, what's the difference between Matt's lies and her secrets? I get the show had ALL THE PLOTS this season but with all the development Karen's sleuthing and journalism sub-plot got, I wished for some character development in this department that was less subtle. Would've been more satisfying to me. I can only hope we get resolution in the future.

Oh my god, Frank giving out love advice I was like ???????????

It was soooooo weird and obviously a way to prop Matt/Karen

Hated it. It felt forced, it was the opposite of organic as you said, and definitely NOT the most believable couple in the MCU. More like the opposite. I'm gonna state a Weird and Unpopular Opinion here, but I think Matt/Karen was even less well done than Bruce/Natasha in AoU.

Why dare I say such a thing? Bruce/Nat came from nowhere, but so did this. And Bruce and Nat at least were honest with each other. They knew what to expect of each other. Matt and Karen... To me it read more like infatuation with your Projected Best Version of the other person. Karen was "in love" with Matt's mysterious charm and Matt was "in love" with the simplicity that Karen - to him - represented.

And those are all lies. This relationship was a trainwreck bound for pain and destruction since the beginning. I am GLAD that Karen recognised the fact that Matt's just - well, there's no other way to put it - TOXIC to the people around him, and that she values her own well-being and sanity enough to get the fuck away.

She deserves much better. Also because - if anything - the season clearly showed that Matt's feelings for Elektra were and still are much stronger.

Ngl, I see a lot of potential in Foggy/Karen, both this season and last. Hell, Frank/Karen is fascinating. I even saw the chemistry between Karen and Blake Tower.

I agree with everything you're saying except that part about Karen being smart and leaving Matt for her own sanity's sake because he's toxic. Honestly, I don't think Karen is quite that far along yet on her own journey. I think if Matt would've come to Karen with a really good reason as to why some woman was in his bed, she would've been right back in his arms. (And I'm glad they didn't do this.)

But I just don't think Karen was a paragon of emotional maturity. I think she still has quite a way to go. (And I hope they let her get to that point on her own, away from Matt and his nonsense. Because damn, boy's got issues.)

I'm not a MattxFoggy shipper but IMO there was more chemistry in Foggy and Matt's minute-long "I don't want to lose you/you won't" conversation right at the start than there was in Karen and Matt's entire relationship this season

There was also more chemistry between Foggy and Karen all season long AND between Karen and Blake Tower in that brief scene in his office.

i would have even believed brett/karen over matt/karen

YES. Hell, BRETT/MATT.

There was also more chemistry between Matt and Frank in the first few episodes than all of the Matt/Karen buildup/breakdown this season.

Hmm. I actually liked it a lot. I enjoyed how normal the initial attraction and then the cute dating scenes felt. Not every relationship has to begin with super deep connections or true love at first sight - here, it really felt like the attraction was just there and they decided to give dating a go and it worked out naturally from there. It wasn't that the relationship had no build-up - it was that what we were seeing on-screen WAS the build-up. At least that's how it felt to me.

The moment that stuck out to me the most were when they gave up on the date at that fancy place and just went to a nice down-to-earth restaurant they both felt comfortable in. It spoke volumes for both their characters and about how, I think, they fulfilled that part of themselves that still lived in the normal world. It was a part of Karen's life that wasn't all about murder and danger. It was a part of Matt's life that had been part of him since long before Stick. So it was nice. I liked seeing them fall in love like normal people, because some part of them IS still normal, and human.

And I mean, they finally got to be happy for a little while. Which God knows they both need.

I liked the eventual falling out, too. Particularly the discussion about the Punisher in Matt's apartment. And they didn't make the ~oh no Matt's cheating angle too overwrought, thank god - that would have irritated me, if it was the only thing that drove them apart. Instead it was a lot of different factors, which made more sense to me.

I wish we got to see Karen's reaction to Matt’s Daredevil confession, though.

OMG YES the warehouse scene. I was holding my breath because I was 98% sure that Karen was gonna go, "Matt?!?" when Daredevil was caressing her face making sure she was okay. I mean come on... same voice, same chin, mouth, stubble.... She works with the guy, for crying out loud. She's kissed that face, stared at those lips... she should recognize him.

All the other times she's had encounters with Daredevil it's been dark, and/or he's been out of breath from fighting and his voice has been naturally different. But this time it was so friggin' obvious it kind of pissed me off that she didn't recognize him. It's starting to get into ridiculous territory like Clark Kent and his stupid glasses. Come on!

I admit, I let characters get away with not knowing Matt is Daredevil because that's a crazy idea to think about any of your friends, but thinking about somebody who's blind probably wouldn't even occur to her - Karen's seen Daredevil fight, you wouldn't assume somebody who can't see is capable of kicking somebody else perfectly in the face when they shouldn't know where that face is. But, yeah, I was half-expecting her to twig during the warehouse scene. Or to have a "I know" reaction when Matt told her at the end.

Just as an aside: Can you imagine how great it would've been if that was the final line right before the credits? Karen, strong and resolute, looking at Matt square in the eyes and saying "I know."

AYRT

I was absolutely expecting her to say that. But they went with another slow-mo significant look between her and Matt instead. Which is a shame, because it became a replay of season one in that sense: having her and Matt flirt/date, then separate them for most of the season, then have that slow-mo moment right at the end to show they'll be closer in future. I kind of wish they hadn't tried to shoehorn the two of them dating into this season - they could have focused on Matt's relationship with Elektra this season, then given him and Karen more focus in season three.

I could imagine it. Too bad the writers couldn't.

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Discussion/Off-Topic Post #2

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