daredevilkink | Prompt Post #4

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Well, Maggie was 100%, canon mentally ill. Scrupulosity was probably part of it but it sounds an awful lot like she had bona fide psychotic delusions; OCD doesn't make you, uhh, try to kill babies. I don't think so in terms of Matt, though... In the show, anyway. I haven't read the comics, just about the comics.

I have OCD personally and I haven't encountered anything that suggests any type of it in Matt yet, and there's a few strikes against it so far. Someone with religious OCD would not have been able to deal with the moral question of whether or not they should kill Fisk in a rational manner, at all. I haven't seen any truly irrational behavior from him-- There's a difference between being reckless with your health and, say, "I can't go in the kitchen because if I do, being in such close proximity to knives will make me spontaneously develop the urge to kill myself." I find the whole "Devil" theme dubious for someone with that sort of OCD, too. They might be able to toy with the idea for a short time, but a sustained, concerted effort like wearing a Devil costume to beat people up every night and being called the "Devil of Hell's Kitchen"? No. Not if they wanted to have their head in the game while they did it, and the ability to remain functional during the day.

I'd say that perhaps Matt just has a very rigid, serious, focused(read: obsessed) personality. The difference between a personality trait and a mental disorder is whether or not it significantly hinders your daily function. Matt, for all of his issues, seems relatively well-adjusted.

yeah, i'm actually not very sure about maggie slapping matt when he was grown (if that was a thing then it was retconned because comix matt currently is trying to mend his relationship with his mom). basically what matt's mom suffered from was a mix of postpartum depression, OCD, and psychosis (i had no idea the last two could happen due to postpartum symptoms) and it made her basically superimpose the face of the devil onto matt and try to kill him. she's still mentally ill iirc but she and matt are basically on the mend now i think.

anyway this is a great fic! keep it up!

Yeah, from the horror stories I've heard I'm willing to bet a shitload of what Frank Miller did has been retconned.

You can get psychosis as a postpartum symptom?

Wow, reason #355 to never have a baby, ever.

I'm not the author, tho :p This all-anon all-the-time thing can be so confusing...

da. Actually, I have scrupulosity and my headcanon is that Matt has it because I see a lot of it in Matt. Also, scrupulosity isn't just religious OCD. It's morality based OCD and a lot of the time it manifests as religion. I mean, have you ever met someone with scrupulosity? I don't think it's fair to think that you're entirely right about what could and could not happen with people with scrupulosity. And not all OCD is the same--Matt could have Pure-O. He definitely has obsessions with morality and violence, and I wouldn't be surprised if he had violent intrusive thoughts. And look, actually, the obsession with the Devil? Fits PERFECTLY for someone with scrupulosity.

Why? Because a lot of people with scrupulosity that involves a lot of religious stuff will focus on a part of the religion that's not that important. Look, here's literally a symptom of scrupulosity for you:

"Scrupulosity is different from normal moral or religious practice because oftentimes scrupulous behavior exceeds or disregards religious law and can focus excessively on one comparatively trivial area of religious practice while other areas are mostly or completely ignored."

This seems exactly like Matt and his fixation on the Devil. The Devil is absolutely comparatively trivial to, say, God or Jesus in Catholicism.

Look, here's some other symptoms of scrupulosity that Matt has:

- pathological guilt about moral or religious issues (literally this is half the show)
- obsessions focus on moral or religious issues (Matt's obsessed with the idea that he might be or become evil, he has a fixation on death, and he has a fixation on behaving morally with a twisted moral system, which is textbook scrupulosity)
- mental of behavioral compulsions (what Matt has: obsessively seeking reassurance from religious leaders and loved ones, acts of self-sacrifice)

So, yeah. Literally everything you said as "strikes against" his having scrupulosity actually fit scrupulosity just fine. And I think a lot of Matt's behavior is irrational and he's not well-adjusted at all. It's not rational to nearly kill yourself and then get right up and nearly kill yourself again *for other people you don't know*.

Those are definitely self-sacrificing tendencies. And he treats the moral question of how to deal with Fisk in a way that keeps with scrupulosity. NO ONE'S SENSE OF MORALITY IS THE SAME, and the morals of people with scrupulosity tend to be really confusing and twisted to anyone but themselves (and even then, they're still confusing), so it actually makes sense that Matt wouldn't immediately be totally unable to consider killing someone. Not everyone with scrupulosity has the same moral code! Not every Catholic has the same moral code! Not every Catholic with scrupulosity has the same moral code! You're thinking of scrupulosity as something surprisingly rational for a kind of OCD, where people have a moral code and they stick to it, and it's the same moral code for everyone.

Look, as a Catholic, there are literally parts of the Bible that Matt could read that would agree with killing people for being Evil. And one of the things about scrupulosity, one of the HORRIBLE things, is that the moral code isn't unshakable, just like Matt's. And then when it's shaken it sends you into a spiral of guilt and terror and fear of being evil. Matt obsesses over killing Fisk for a long time and he continues to obsess over it. I wouldn't be surprised if he had intrusive thoughts of it. He can't think of anything else. He *fixates* on it. He seeks reassurance from Father Lantom over it. I'm sorry, but that seems like scrupulosity to me.

It seems completely irrational for a guy who's obsessed with morality and religion to dress up as the Devil and do what Matt does? Yeah, you actually mention it--since when has OCD been rational?

Sincerely,
A Practicing Catholic With Scrupulosity Who Would Really Appreciate It If People Would Let Her Keep The Representation She's Found For Herself, Thanks

anon who mentioned maggie having postpartum OCD and psychosis here. i totally will accept that, i know next to nothing about the manifestations of OCD other than intrusive thoughts or repetitive actions, but from what you've described, anon, that basically hits what matt's got on the head. i mean, i already considered him clinically depressed (and waid's run of daredevil explicitly states that matt's got depression but constantly is repressing his symptoms in order to not freak people like foggy out) and probably on the autism spectrum, and scrupulosity can definitely be added to that list.

overall i think probably matt's got an entire grocery list of disorders and issues but because he insists on self-medication or denying that he has any problems to begin with he ends up way worse off than he already is. for example in vol4 he tells his girlfriend kirsten that he's absolutely fine and feeling great and then goes home, takes off his coat, tie, and dress shirt, leaves them all over the stairs, and proceeds to take to the fetal position in his bed. the poor dude just can't get a break. :(

ayrt here! Yay, I'm glad my possibly-too-passionate argument was convincing. XD And actually I headcanon that Matt's autistic and has depression too! (Lolllll, I have those tooooooo but Matt FITS IT okay?!)

Prompt Post #4

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