daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

I can see your point, but I don't agree with it. You're saying she needed to run her hand over his face to make her point? If their genders were reversed, would it have looked the same? If all she was intending was to call him on his hipocrasy (LOL WAIT UNTIL SHE FINDS OUT HE'S DD), then why does she react to his discomfort? Yes, I think she honestly cares about Matt and wants him to be safe, but she'd already made that point, it's established. To me, by the time the camera backs up to watch Karen dance up to Matt to lay hands on him, it has everything to do with letting him know she's attracted to him, and Matt had to be aware of her attraction by that point but never reacts to it. Until that point, where he pulls away. And then I thought she called him on the 'push people away' thing when he has his breakdown in the office. He's in such pain she's already crying even before she goes to him (again) to hug him, it's a callback to that face-touching scene in Matt's apt, but in the office he finally accepts her touch, and it... doesn't fully correct things for me wrt Karen/Matt but it helped. I'll be so happy if their friendship is solid and good in S2, but Karen has a long way to go to make me trust her after the way she treated Foggy.

Okay, so I just watched that scene again, because I thought: it's been a while since I watched that episode, maybe I'm missing something.

They'd just got done with a conversation where he's obviously lying to her about something (and she thinks possibly that he's been attacked in his home by Fisk's men and is lying to protect his friends), and then he asks her to talk to Foggy, and then he tells HER to be careful. She can see how beat to shit he is and places her hand to a cut on his face and tells this silly lone-wolf man that maybe he should take his own advice. He didn't flinch away from Karen; he looked down, AFTER she removed her hand.

To me - and yes, I get that we're reading this scene differently - Matt is more uncomfortable with the fact that she's right than he is about her touching his face.

(Also, Claire literally did the same thing? Like, she ran her hand over Matt's face and then kissed him on the forehead without any warning whatsoever? Did Claire NEED to do that?)

To me - and yes, I get that we're reading this scene differently - Matt is more uncomfortable with the fact that she's right than he is about her touching his face.

Yeah, this. Watching that scene I don't get the impression that he was uncomfortable with her touching his face. He was uncomfortable with the conversation.

It's cool, nonny, people are going to read the scene differently. We're fandom, it's what we do, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain your perspective, thank you. :)

Karen didn't need to be inside of Matt's personal area to make the point is what I was saying. Karen being hands-on with Matt is different from Claire because Matt and Claire were a thing, a physically smoochy and emotionally 'you know what it was' intimate thing where Claire dropped the L bomb. Karen didn't have any of that freedom with Matt (so thank you for bringing up Claire, I guess, because it kind of shows the different context?), but the audience knew by Karen's behaviours how much she wanted something with Matt.

In summation, my initial point wasn't about Karen's treatment of Matt only in this scene, it's that this scene bothers me in direct correlation to the FOGGY TOUCH MY FACE scene. This scene compounds that more important scene for me because it made me distrust Karen wrt the people she 'cares' for. This also extends to Ben, there's a pattern involved, and while I started the series loving Karen so much, by the end of the series I was having a lot of trouble trusting Karen in general, but specifically working at Nelson & Murdock. Other folks in fandom love her and trust her just fine, and that's all well and good for them. I have hopes the show will change my mind next series. It's interesting to me that fandom is so divided over Karen, but at least I haven't run into anybody (yet) who doesn't have strong feelings about her one way or another.

DA

Karen didn't have any of that freedom with Matt

She didn't have a romantic relationship with him, but they were friends. Which can (depending on the people/circumstances in question) mean that face touching is okay. And what was shown in that scene was Matt pretty visibly being okay with Karen touching his face, so yeah, I think she does have that freedom.

I reallly don't think Karen touching him in that scene was a come on. You can be romantically interested in someone and still offer physical gestures of platonic affection.

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