daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

No, I meant in regard to the legwork that was done in order to get him arrested (obviously Matt beat the crap out of Fisk and slowed him down long enough to get arrested).

From episode 10 onward, Matt actually does very little to further the investigation, aside from overhear (by chance) that the cops were looking for Hoffman, which in turn lead them to the discovery about Owlsley moving money and keeping Hoffman at a safehouse. Like, he was running around doing stuff and being angsty, but the thing with Hoffman was the only thing he did (from episode 10 on, not talking about prior to that) which helped build their case against Fisk.

Karen, Ben, Foggy and Marci did most of the work in those final episodes. It's just they were missing the final puzzle piece, Hoffman's confession, to bring everything together and make it stick.

So, to answer OP's question: Maybe? Eventually? (but not very likely) They really lucked out by getting Hoffman to confess.

AYRT Let's see! I'll whittle down the happenstance to whatever relates to Fisk and your question, or might be construed as such, mkay? I needed a fun distraction for a few minutes anyway. :)

EP 11:
Matt's still recovering from being half-dead. Foggy spends all of ep11 drinking at Josie's bar. Karen is trying to get Ben to forgive her while also pushing to get him to print the Fisk story (she won't post it online because she doesn't want anyone to find the sordid background Ben already found). Karen is also trying to get Foggy and Matt to sort their shit so they can work on the Fisk case. Obvs she's not a lawyer so she doesn't really know what she's doing, but she's trying to get them to clear the air so they can get back to work. On one hand I like that she's pushing because they're 'supposed to be a team' and she feels an emotional investment in them as 'the only good thing in her life.' OTOH I hate that she's pushing them to clear the air because, again, she doesn't know what she's talking about but she wants what she wants and is crossing personal boundaries in really disrespectful ways. To her it's 'some kind of argument', but to Matt and Foggy it's a very painful divorce of an emotional marriage. Then Karen gets kidnapped by Wesley and kills him and hides the evidence.

EP 12:
Foggy finally picks up Ben's docs in the office and hooks up with Marci to get her to help. Karen stays in the office for the day and does I don't know what. Matt goes to meet with Ben for information, but then also warns him to keep his head down and not push anything about Fisk because he doesn't want to see him hurt. Matt finds Gao and wrecks the heroin distribution, hoping to damage Fisk's finances so he'll make a mistake and Gao does bow out of the picture. Karen goes to Ben and pushes him to post the story about Fisk 'right now.' Fisk kills Ben.

EP 13:
Matt's plan to cause a chain reaction in Fisk's finances works the way he hoped and Owlsley steals from Fisk, gets busted, and is thrown down the elevator shaft. All of Fisk's support is gone now, and Fisk is looking for Hoffman. Matt overhears this, uses the docs Marci got them, and directs Foggy and Karen to look for properties, liens, etc. Karen finds something suspicious, Matt goes to check it out and rescues Hoffman. Hoffman gives his statement, a roundup of people are arrested along with Fisk. (I love how Matt gives credit to Marci for helping them collar Fisk; that's class.)

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking and I'm assuming you're the OP since you said 'you' meant the question differently, but the only question I see is the one from the OP. You're question seems a little leading, like you're trying to erase Matt's involvement in anything after ep10 as either 'luck' and/or 'angst' and 'stuff' but I've offered the benefit of the doubt and answered with the facts. Hope this helps.

Yeeah... shutting down Gao's heroin operation and forcing Owsley's hand isn't nothing. Nor is assisting with ensuring Hoffman can testify. Those are both pretty huge pieces of the puzzle.

I think the reason it seems like he does less is because after episode 10, he resolves to basically stop letting his own impulsiveness and desire to straight-up kill Fisk get in the way of taking him down. He plans his moves better and is more careful, which means that his involvement appears less aggressive.

Which is fine, because it means that it doesn't actually look like Daredevil took Fisk down initially. Just like the law did. Which is what Matt actually wanted.

Mm-hm, yes, and there's a big difference between understanding what the series was trying to say (as you do), and trying to negate or dismiss whatever Matt's part in it and say Karen, Ben, Foggy and Marci did most of the work in those final episodes,. Because that's some selective viewing right there. But, hey, maybe the OP was just wording things poorly today or I was missing their point completely.

Also, I agree that Matt finally moved towards being smart and proactive (not just reactive) after ep10, especially with the body armour and the callout to Karen that he can't do things alone anymore, which will go a long way toward his mental and physical health next series. And of course, relying on the law since he's so all about justice. There's a really brilliant breakdown on the intarwebz about Matt's fighting style, too, and how he gets sloppy and reverts back to flatter-footed boxer when he's off-balance and unfocussed or just plain angry, and when he's actually thinking and processing and focussed and being smart he uses all his other training and you see more of the kick flips and spins, the 'ballet'. Amazing that even the fighting styles were reflecting his mental state through the show. They did a nice job but it's easy to miss the small details like that.

Exactly. If we're keeping score as far as ~information gathering~ or paperwork goes, then sure; technically Foggy and Marci and Karen and Ben did much more than Matt in the final eps.

But they could have info-gathered until the cows came home and it wouldn't have put Fisk away.

That fighting style meta sounds amazing; do you have a link?

AYRT,

Nope, not the op. I'm the one that said: "Yeah, that's about the only integral thing Matt did beyond episode 10, really." And then I expanded on what I meant in the reply to your reply of that... reply. *squints*

So, to answer OP's question: Maybe? Eventually? (but not very likely) They really lucked out by getting Hoffman to confess.

So you think they got lucky by getting Hoffman to confess, really? To answer the OP's question: No. There was no luck involved in getting Hoffman to confess, that credit goes to Matt because even though he freed him, Hoffman still wanted to bolt and Matt threatened him to go confess the truth because he was going to watch him the whole way and make sure he got to the precinct. That's not an accident or LUCK (luck? seriously?), that's work.

Karen, Ben, Foggy and Marci did most of the work in those final episodes.

Nope. Nooooooope. I'm not sure what show you watched but if you really think they're the ones who did most of the work after episode 10 to further the investigation and catch Fisk, then you're either being deliberately obtuse or you watched an entirely different show than I did. Maybe the helpful question you should ask yourself is whether Matt needed the others to catch Fisk after episode 10? Please try that question on for point of reference so you can see how ridiculous it sounds.

LOL. Chill out.

Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

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