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Re: Fisk says he takes no pleasure in giving pain

[(Anonymous)]

One of the things I like about Fisk, as a character, is that he is a subtle and nuanced villain. Part of that is that I think his attitudes and feelings toward violence are context-dependent.

Does he enjoy directly inflicting violence and pain? Highly likely. I think it is less about the cruelty though, and more about cutting lose and giving into (maybe learned) instincts for violence. Here I'm thinking about his temper-tantrums, such as the infamous car-door incident.

That said, a part of it (at least with Matt) might even be a joy in the physicality of the fight itself. I would be surprised if he didn't have some sort of formalised martial training. No way could he hold his own without some sort of training, even with his size, against a Stick-trained Matt.

As for the "regrettable" cruelty, I think he sincerely regrets individuals caught in the cross-fire of his plans. He doesn't take pleasure in the abstract suffering of others. That would be pretty awful, even for a villain. While he may enjoy hurting someone with his bare hands or winning, I don't think he would enjoy the idea that random innocent people are casualties. He doesn't care enough to stop his plans, but he doesn't want the people whose lives he's trying to "save" or "fix" to suffer. I imagine him feeling a vague and nebulous unhappiness, sort of like how a person feels after seeing a news-story about wars happening overseas. I think there is a level of disconnect for him.

However, at the end of the day "author convince me". If someone writes a sadistic monster Fisk well, I will endorse that head-canon. If someone writes him as a conflicted and tortured soul believably, then I'll support that too. Simultaneously, if need be. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. People are complicated and the best characters try to emulate and reflect that complexity.

Re: Fisk says he takes no pleasure in giving pain

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, co-signed.

Re: Fisk says he takes no pleasure in giving pain

[(Anonymous)]

This is such a lovely in-depth consideration of his character, thank you. Yes, it's said Wilson was originally a bodyguard/thug working for one of the heads of the mob until he killed him and took his place, so there's a bloody body count in Fisk's background before we even meet him. And then he comes off like he's too high class or it's beneath him or he doesn't want to dirty his hands, except he does? Like he has no chill when he finally has a reason to break someone with his hamfists, it gives him life, it's right there on his face. Rambling, sorry.

FWIW I agree with you, especially regarding the vague, nebulous discontent Fisk likely feels when people are hurt. This reminds me very much of when he's talking to Vanessa in the hospital about faith, how he went through the motions because it was expected, but he didn't feel anything, it was just rote nothing, mimicry. This reminds me of a Psychology Today article re: the difference between sociopaths and psychopaths, and Fisk weighs pretty heavily on the psychopath side of the scale. He's actually kind of textbook:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath

The show goes to great lengths to give us these parallels between all the characters, a Venn diagram would be fabulous to show where the overlaps are, but the one place Matt and Wilson don't overlap at all? Guilt and faith. The show brought in religion to highlight Matt's moral side of things, what happens to his stability when it decays, and just how great his empathy is for his people, the guilt he has when he fails his 'family.' And Fisk just doesn't have that and the show uses his monologue in ep13 to highlight it with a bible story of all things. And it's perfect (if cliched). The self-delusion. The ill intent. The self-acceptance. It's not pretty, but he's finally being true to himself. I wonder what Vanessa will say.

I do wonder about Wesley, too, because Wesley loved Fisk, loved and respected and was loyal to him, and the only times he couldn't watch his employer with hearteyes? Was when Wilson was beating someone to death with his two massive hands. Even when Wilson is beating the crap out of Matt, the masked guy they've been trying to catch and kill and have failed how many times already, and Wilson is in the background just staring at anything else. What a bunch of fascinating characters.