daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

what it says on the tin. suspend all disbelief for a couple seconds and just tell me things you want to happen, things you'd sell your soul to see. however likely or unlikely, if you could write something into the script what would you add??

personally, i'd kill to see every missing scene from nelson vs murdock. i wanna see half-dead matt trying to take a swing at foggy, i wanna see foggy calling claire, i wanna see what went down when claire turned up, i wanna see foggy losing his mind about the whole thing. when it picks up foggy is seething, i want to see foggy's emotional rollercoaster leading up to so-mad-i-could-kill-you (honestly i'd kill to see a four hour all-inclusive extended directors cut of nelson vs murdock, i can't tell you how many times i've watched the matt + foggy parts of that episode)

i'm also a big big big fan of the college flashbacks, i would pay good money to watch a daredevil prequel series that's all about matt and foggy in college.

there are probably a million other things i'm not remembering right now but what about you guys??

wait also two other things i forgot:

1) please burn the red suit and put matt back in his black pyjamas and
2) more totally unwarranted completely gratuitous butt shots matt has a beautoful butt and i think we deserve more of it

i'm just gonna keep this party going: karaoke!! i need to see college era matt and foggy doing very drunk very bad karaoke

Yes, get rid of the red suit. It's horrible.

My second wish is one that should probably go on the unpopular opinions thread, or something: Have Fisk back for an episode or so, but eventually make it clear that he's had a conversion experience in prison and is trying to do the right thing. Because that's something that comic books never seem to do with their villains, and it also has potential, such as rewarding the no-kill rule. (Why, yes, I love Astrocity's Steeljack. And Faith and Spike from Buffy. Why do you ask?)

I HAVE SO MANY THOUGHTS ON THIS!

First off, we will likely get more college flashbacks, because Elektra was Matt's college girlfriend, so the show will have to really flash back to give us the context on that which I am super excited for. Her arc in the comics is one of the few instances there where we do see a lot of college Matt, so I have high hopes.

Second, here is my plausible and complex theory for S2 based on characterization from S1 and certain things in the trailers and images released so far:

In S1, we see one key difference emerge between Matt and Foggy, personality-wise that I suspect (hope) will be the engine that drives S2. Foggy believes that all people are innocent until proven guilty and that even the innocent deserve good representation and support no matter what they did, and his knowledge of all of the men in the bar and their backstories tells you that he is non-judgmental towards the criminally-inclined or hard up and likely feels empathy even for people who make bad choices. Matt is much quicker to judgment and gives anyone who breaks the law absolutely no empathy, likely because he overcame his own tragic backstory to pick himself up by his bootstraps and also his Catholicism. He has a much more absolute view of who is a good person and who isn't and is insistent with Foggy that they only represent people who he deems "innocent".

SO imagine a scenario in S2 where Frank Castle has been in operation in the background even of S1. And either someone Foggy knows directly is killed by Castle in his quest to take the law into his own hands, or someone indirectly who he knows shows up at their office begging the lawyers to help investigate - a wife and child of one of Castle's victims, for instance.

Matt refuses to intervene, because he, not personally having encountered Frank yet, figures that he doesn't have to care about what happens to criminals - they're asking for it and his views are somewhat aligned with Castle's early in the season.

This just adds to the distance between him and Foggy following Nelson v. Murdock, because Foggy has a very different view of how a hero should behave. Foggy starts investigating himself despite Matt's objections, and gets himself involved to the point where maybe Frank even knows who he is and assumes that Nelson and Murdock are a crooked firm involved with the wrong people, defending criminals. Foggy's involvement pulls Matt into conflict with Frank, because Foggy gets Frank's attention and wants to stop him. (Hence why apparently based on set photos one of the scenes shot involved Foggy and Frank together at a warehouse).

Over the course of the season, Matt is forced to confront a different moral dilemma that builds off of his struggles last season - he is very clear that killing a criminal personally is wrong, but what about if it's his own inaction that indirectly leads to death. Should he intervene to prevent the deaths and suffering of those he deems guilty, even if they are not being killed by his hand?

Things with Elektra complicate this further for him because she's also a criminal who kills but he loved her once.

And so both Foggy acting as an external conscience pushing him to confront his beliefs AND Elektra put Matt into a direct conflict with Frank and force him to face what being a hero and symbol means and what his obligations in that respect are. The show still portrays he and Frank as similar in the way it did with he and Fisk, but in a different way, Foggy gets lots to do, Elektra's arc makes sense alongside Frank's, and the show really pushes everyone's arcs forward in a relevant way.

It explains also why Matt is asking Father Lantom in the church "Why do I still feel guilty?" He's referring to feeling guilty about a criminal dying even when he didn't cause the death himself and even when the person was horrible and guilty themselves.

I imagine that his relationship with Karen will play into this because she's also slowly sliding down the slippery slope towards guilt and sin and maybe at the beginning of the season he takes refuge in her because she (unlike Foggy) agrees with his side in things on account of what happened with Wesley.

So yeah... if S2 isn't this, I still think it's the best way to repeat the best elements of S1 but push them further, keep Foggy and Karen central to things while introducing new characters, and bring the pain for Matt (which, lets face it, is really what we all want).

We'll see! But I wanted to share to see what people think of that theory. :D

Oh nice, nice. I like some of these ideas and I even kinda hope we see some of this but iirc Foggy was quick to condemn the man in the mask, he judged him as guilty way before finding out he was Matt, and once he did he even questioned whether Matt had killed people and blew up those buildings. He didn't want to even legally represent the man in the mask because he was so sure he was guilty. What I'm saying is Foggy says he believes all people are innocent until proven guilty, but his actions speak louder than his words. He doesn't have Matt's superhuman senses to tell him who's being honest when they say they're innocent.

It's also been mentioned by the producers that Foggy is the one saying he absolutely does not like Frank at all, and Frank starts the season as being entirely unlikable, I think he goes against Matt early on but over the course of the season Matt comes around to... not support Frank but understand why he does what he does. And that understanding and probably defending Frank to some degree, maybe even defending him to Foggy, is probably what's going to put Matt and Foggy at odds. Thing is, we, the viewers, have to come around to Matt's way of thinking during the season, he have to understand Frank and support him in some way because dude is getting his own series on Netflix and if he didn't have people, viewers, supporting him and his murderous choices, then he wouldn't be getting his own show. They're going to wrap the season on a high note, with Matt and Frank in some sort of uneasy partnership and I'd bet money Matt gets seriously hurt physically defending Frank out on the streets, which will make Frank defend DD (because Frank in the comics doesn't ever really understand or feel worthy of Matt's forgiveness, he wants Matt to give up on him as a lost cause - he calls Matt 'choir boy' for a reason because Matt's innate goodness is kinda ridiculous and eventually shines, eventually).

Personally I think Matt's going to start out at odds with Frank, then with Elektra's (and Karen's) input and watching Frank probably be super effective out there on the streets, he's going to slowly slide to the darkside and questions whether he's even doing the right thing, just putting criminals through the catch and release legal system when they're only going to be released and kill again and again and again). I think it's Frank who's going to be the one to stop Matt from going full Punisher, though. As he says in the comics, 'You don't want to be me. You needed to remember that.'

But honestly, I still hope Foggy has stuff to do and I do hope we see him and Matt at odds again, as painful as it is.

Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

if you could write something into the season two script what would it be

Re: if you could write something into the season two script what would it be

Re: if you could write something into the season two script what would it be

Re: if you could write something into the season two script what would it be

Re: if you could write something into the season two script what would it be

Re: if you could write something into the season two script what would it be