daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

re: Sunday school, I took that as the writers being a bit iffy on their religious studies. They may have been thinking of CCD classes instead of Sunday school.

(I was raised Protestant with Catholic friends. Whenever they talked about CCD I translated that in my head to 'Sunday school' because that was the only reference I had, so it's easy for me to think the writers may have done the same thing. *shrug*)

But overall, I'm not inclined to look too deep into what Claire said there, or blame her character for the wording. A surface reading of her dialog ("DANGER MATT MURDOCK, 'BLOODY AND ALONE', YOU ARE WALKING DOWN A DANGEROUS PATH, OH NO") seems to be what the writers were going for rather than religious accuracy.

And besides, imo it's the Doylist perspective that's more relevant than the Watsonian one in the case.

Claire is being set up as a foil to Karen.

It's not something I see mentioned a lot on the meme, because it's not where most people's interests lie, but it's pretty obvious that Matt/Karen is endgame in this show. The writers haven't been subtle about it. And while I *personally* would rather that not happen (for so, so many character-based reasons) there's a lot going on in the very structure of the show that tries to set that dynamic up.

Part of that, I think, is Claire's last speech. She tells Matt, 'I agree with the mission, but what you're doing is something I can't handle in my personal life, you constantly push people away, you're never going to stop, so I'm leaving with a last ominous warning to up the tension of your character arc for the final act. If you're not careful, you're going to end up bloody and alone.'

And not long after that we have the scene with Karen. And what do the writers have Karen say? "YOU'RE NOT ALONE, LET ME EMBRACE YOU." Or something like that. I can't help but imagine the writers/showrunners waving neon signs around their heads at this point going, look, look, it's KAREN, she gets him, she's there for him!!

They had to take Claire out of the picture to make way for Matt/Karen and they did it in a way that furthered Matt's emotional arc AND bolstered Karen's position as Love Interest, which was greatly needed since they had Matt actively avoiding Karen all season long because Foggy had shown interest in her. (Which, eh. There are worse ways to do a love triangle than having the main guy bow out because the best friend liked her, too.)

(also to the writers' credit, at least they let Claire walk out of the picture by her own choice. No fridges needed.)

Agreed. Karen is fucked up in ways that are similar to the way that Matt is fucked up. They're perfect for each other.

AYRT

lmao, actually, that's exactly why I think they're horrible for each other. It's why they're attracted to each other, absolutely. Can't deny that. But for me at least, it's like watching a car crash. They'd enable each other so bad it would be ridiculous. Like. I just want them BOTH to find someone who can keep them from going off the rails.

ayrt, I meant that in more of a "they DESERVE each other" kind of way, but yes.

This is also the reason why Matt is attracted to Elektra. She's his wild side, his dark side, she's far more brazen and unhinged than he is and she takes control away from him when she can. And Matt likes that, he genuinely loved her at one point in his life when he was young and far more innocent (and virginal) and gave her (IMO) too much, and she breaks him in so many ways. It's Stick all over again w/o the sex, but it's also a running theme with Matt that he's sexually attracted to strong, fucked up people who end up hurting him. He's just... prone to give too much of himself to the craziest people on earth and then pays for it, but he doesn't stray from the pattern: Stick, Elektra, Karen, Mary, etc. Everything starts with Stick, though. Of course.

Someone please remind me whether it was Elektra or Mary (in the comics) who comes onto Matt and then is damaging Matt physically while they're having sex and then leaves him on the bed basically bleeding out? It's one of the two but I can't remember which.

AYRT: So I should probably be thinking "Joan of Arc" rather than actual Scripture. Okay, that makes more sense.

I don't actually mind Karen/Matt as endgame, as long as the writers give her an actual character. I have high hopes that that will happen someday. And I actually think Karen gets him more because one of the few things that has become clear about her character is her bone-deep determination to see this thing through to the end, even when it gets hard and scary. In Claire's world, she's probably destined to end up bloody and alone.

But the things is...I don't really think Claire's wrong for thinking that? It's got a HIGH chance of happening, lbr.

It almost happened to Karen in the series after all, twice. First when she was set up for the guy's murder and almost killed in her jail cell, and then again with Wesley. Both times she ended up in those situations because she could not let things go. I'm not putting a value judgement on that, it's just a part of her character. (and props to her, she fought herself out of both messes.) But it's a part of her character that constantly puts her in a position where it is HIGHLY likely she will end up 'bloody and alone.'

In the comics...no, she doesn't end up 'alone' when she gets murdered. But Matt does.

Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

Re: Having problems with Claire's "bloody and alone"

Re: Having problems with Claire's "bloody and alone"

Re: Having problems with Claire's "bloody and alone"

Re: Having problems with Claire's "bloody and alone"

Re: Having problems with Claire's "bloody and alone"

Re: Having problems with Claire's "bloody and alone"

Re: Having problems with Claire's "bloody and alone"