daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

AYRT: I completely agree that his "mindset could definitely be at least partially attributed to a history of abuse, whether his dad's or his own."

I kind of like to think that Jack did his best not to abuse Matt. He was trying his hardest not to be his dad, here. Which is why he treats Matty like a partner, not a punching bag, either physically or verbally. His kid is just so d*** smart. Not like him.

Honestly, I'd take Matt Murdock's childhood with Jack, as full of inappropriate pressure as it sometimes was, over Bruce Banner's, or Clint Barton's, or Steve Rogers' (in the comics, anyhow). Which is pretty much what my head-canon gives Jack. And I'd like to think that Matt would be even better than Jack with his own child(ren), if he ever settled down enough to have any.

SA: Although I'd absolutely jump ship to Peter Parker's childhood, in a hot minute, even with the fact that he's technically an orphan. +/- Banner-style tampering with DNA in the womb/as an infant.

Also, Marvel really likes the abusive dad theme, doesn't it?

Also, Marvel really likes the abusive dad theme, doesn't it?

They really do! And if a character has decent, loving parents, then the writers punish them for it with a backstory of childhood bullying (see Matt Murdock, Peter Parker, Billy Kaplan).

AYRT: So Steve Rogers pretty much got it from all sides, depending on who's writing the comic back story. Ouch. At least he had a lovely mother.

100% yes Clint's backstory is ridiculously sad (especially with some of the recent retcons) and Bruce's is downright horrifying. Both characters in the MCU had this erased though lol.

I think the biggest issue Jack and Matt have really is that Jack in the MCU treats Matt like an equal when he is nine. Matt asks if they have enough to pay rent and he stitches up his dad's face and Jack offers him alcohol to do it. It's clear he loves Matt very much but he's not very good at boundaries or making good life choices. Matt as a kid grew up in a loving but very broken home. Jack does behave like someone who had a very bad relationship with his dad so he's overcompensating by making his kid his friend.

Oh my god Matt with children. He is so protective of children. He would end up with one under his care for whatever reason and then somehow he would end up with ten little urchins all living in his apartment. Foggy we need to take on more clients. I have ten children to feed now.

matt having an apartment full of children and calling foggy like "listen, i can't come in today." and foggy being like "you need to take a sick day?" and matt just "actually, it's more like paternity leave."

Foggy comes over and is like 'holy hell Matt where did all of these kids come from'

Matt's like 'well see the thing is I keep rescuing kids who have no parents and they keep getting turned over to the authorities and put in really shitty homes and orphanages. So I asked this little guy, Bobby, I said do you just want to come home with me instead and I'll adopt you? And he said yes. And now I have ten children."

'Nothing stopped you in the snowball from one kid to ten kids'

'..........not really, no'

"you're like the oprah of adoption. you get a vigilante father figure! and you get a vigilante father figure! and you ge-"

"what can i say foggy? i'm an equal opportunist"

'you know now that this is a hard limit though, right? ten kids is definitely a hard limit'

'. .y-yea. . .'

'matt'

'of course I knew that, Foggy'

*kid tugs on Matt's shirt*

'He means we're done after we find my brother, right?'

Matt: *sheepish smile at Foggy*

matt trying to explain it away like "foggy they looked so sad, i couldn't say no. look at these precious little cherubs, tell me you could say no to these faces."

and foggy just deadpanning "you're blind. you can't see their faces."

OP: I love everyone on this thread.

ayrt: i am absolutely with you, especially your point about jack trying his hardest not to be his dad. jack's misguided (having your nine year old drink before he stitches up your face definitely disqualifies him as father of the year) sure, but i don't believe he was the absolute worst. although certain aspects of their relationship were unideal, jack clearly had nothing but love and respect for matt.

i also don't think jack abused matt frequently or even infrequently, i see it maybe being a defining event, something that happened once (i'm not excusing it at all, just to be clear) and that after it happened jack (who would never forgive himself for it) had a very frank discussion with matt about the murdock men and their devil. maybe that's when matt learns about his father's abuse and why his father is so desperate for matt to use his brain, to not be like him. the history of abuse in his family could also be cemented by the fact that matt (in tv canon, i've not read the comics enough to know) has been shown to be very protective of children.

yeah, i'd like to believe that if matt ever did have children he'd completely break the cycle.

when i say "ayrt" i mean i'm the "mindset could definitely be at least partially attributed to a history of abuse, whether his dad's or his own" anon

OP (and AYRT): Don't worry, I figured out which anon you were right away.

Your first paragraph? Is exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you. Misguided is the right word, here. I don't disagree that Jack made some poor choices with respect to his son. But I'd also like to point out that he has very few resources, either monetary or people-wise, which I think is the other thing the face-stitching episode is supposed to demonstrate. I don't think the show ever portrays him in any kind of positive relationship except with his son, so he has no one to help him figure out how to parent. (I'm assuming his mother is dead by the face-stitching scene, by the way.) And so little Matt Murdock has lessons in violence, poor self-care, and taking too much upon himself before he even loses his sight. Jack doesn't have the tools to realize that this is what he's teaching. Just, bleh.

Your second paragraph? I guess I can see it. My head canon is that Jack desperately tried to shield Matt from his anger, and also that he never knew his mother had shared her "Murdock men have a devil in them" theory with Matt. Which certainly doesn't contradict anything you said there, but my further head canon is that Jack never discussed his childhood abuse with Matt. He's trying to leave all that behind him, and out of their relationship entirely. Which is why, if Matt ever did catch a glimpse of "the devil" in his father in their one-on-one interactions, it was immediately followed by his dad sequestering himself to punch a wall for a while, or something, turning the violence in upon himself. (Which is still pretty traumatizing for a child.)

Of course, all of this is head canon, and your interpretation of what the show has given us works, too. And the show is never going to give us a Matt with children, because that's not the genre of the show. Which is why I'm loving the other conversation this prompt turned into. :)

In Man Without Fear, Jack hit Matt exactly once (for getting into fights, ironically). That was a pivotal moment in his life, and afterwards he decided to become a lawyer (I can't remember how the kid-logic went)

So gold star for you, anon!

Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?

Re: Jack Murdock's father abusive?