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daredevilkink2015-05-09 07:29 pm
ddk_mod) wrote in daredevilkink2015-05-09 07:29 pm
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Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1
Please head over to Discussion Post #2!
Please head over to Discussion Post #2!
ANON, ARE YOU ME? I WANT THE SIM FALLOUT LIKE BURNING YESSSS
Thank you for your consideration, anon.
it was pretty easy to forget that he ended up in prison, we only got like a three second shot of him in his cell like right at the very very end. no worries!! i'm glad i could help :-)
There are a number of places online that have set up verbatim episode transcripts so those might help!
He's probably really intuitive at cooking, and would probably prefer to make his food himself when he has the time because he can control exactly what goes into it. He does look like he's got a lot of spices and things like that, and I've yet to meet someone who doesn't enjoy cooking or experimenting with food who bothers buying all that stuff.
Oh really?! I'll check that out then, thank you!
OP. Yeah... I started with Miller and even that was difficult (even though Elektra kicks ass).
I don't even touch the earlier stuff, because of the sexism but also because of the oversimplified plots, weird rampant inadvertent homoeroticism, and abundance of bad puns and catchphrases.
I don't even touch the earlier stuff, because of the sexism but also because of the oversimplified plots, weird rampant inadvertent homoeroticism, and abundance of bad puns and catchphrases.
Don't worry, nonnie, now that DD is part of the MCU, everybody in the world has decided the most decorative accessory in the Nelson and Murdock office is actually Matt Murdock. So yay for 2015 and equal opportunity objectification, I guess?
I'm taking a poll.
YES. I think there is already a prompt for someone to fill that blank areas of whatever happened between Tony and Matt if it happened in the MCU but I haven't seen a prompt for what happens afterward, and I really want to know, too. If I don't see anything for it, I'll prompt it.
There's a similar prompt for "MCU Matt dealing with memories that happened in an alternate universe" that might fit.
I've just rewatched episode seven and I'm not sure that Stick did have the bracelet Matt made him, during the fight Matt picks up a box off the side table and throws it at Stick's head it breaks, and I think that's where the bracelet came from. Thoughts ?
That makes much more sense, that Matt kept it all these years.
Because otherwise I was thinking Stick left it to make Matt think he still cared about him.
Because otherwise I was thinking Stick left it to make Matt think he still cared about him.
Yeah that seems more likely and it's what I'd like to have actually happened because Stick keeping it just to fuck with Matt is too painful.
Co-signed! I have the feeling next season will blow up Matt/Frank in huge ways.
Can anyone help me find the one where he's a prostitute, and the one where matt takes foggy to meet him? It's about how jack doesn't want matt to be a fighter/his reaction to seeing matt with bruises, I think?
Prostitute!Jack:
http://daredevilkink.dreamwidth.org/2760.html?thread=5210056#cmt5210056
I don't know where the other one is, though. Sorry.
http://daredevilkink.dreamwidth.org/2760.html?thread=5210056#cmt5210056
I don't know where the other one is, though. Sorry.
I've just started reading the end of days comics and it's just making me even more angry/sad that they killed off Ben in the show? Like why??? He's such a good character and his relationships with the other characters would have been awesome???????? W h y
(Also I wish there was more fic about him out there ugh)
(Also I wish there was more fic about him out there ugh)
I feel like Ben's death made narrative sense, but at the same time it was like they took the easy way out and didn't bother to think of some way he could have been saved.
Yeah exactly, I mean it DID make sense but it absolutely didn't have to happen imo? It just seems such a shame to lose such a good character so early on in the show :(
Guys, can we have a discussion about Karen in season 2?
If people know Karen in the comics, then it seems there's a lot of hinting in the series that Karen has had her own downward spiral and when she comes to NYC it's to move beyond all her bad years (from the comics in a nutshell: porn and drug addiction), but something Father Lantom tells Matt is worrying me: 'Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain is the righteous man who gives way before the wicked.' [when the righteous succumb to sin, it is as harmful as if the public well were poisoned. Because the darkness of such an act... of taking a life... will spread to friends, neighbors... the entire community.] That sounds like ominous foreshadowing to me. Maybe it was a red herring about DD, but would Karen be considered 'righteous'?
She's killed Wesley, she claims it wasn't the first time, she's got some guilt (and some legit blame) for Ben's death, too, and there's a lot of drinking and exhaustion happening with her there in eps 12&13 and some nods about maybe drugs coming back into the picture. Unlike Matt who has finally opened up about his own DD-shaped secret and now has a support system in place, Karen is being crushed under her own silence.
Where do you guys see her character going next season? Does she become the Ben Urich reporter replacement on the show? Does she remain a secretary to N&M? I don't want to see her paired up with Matt at all, but she spent most of S1 looking at him with some obvious designs but never really acting on it, and god help us all if she finds out he's DD because I feel like she's already crushing on DD, too. And if Karen is holding a torch for Matt, what happens to that when Elektra comes into the picture next season? I don't think things will go the Foggy/Karen route, either, so where does Karen go from here?
If people know Karen in the comics, then it seems there's a lot of hinting in the series that Karen has had her own downward spiral and when she comes to NYC it's to move beyond all her bad years (from the comics in a nutshell: porn and drug addiction), but something Father Lantom tells Matt is worrying me: 'Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain is the righteous man who gives way before the wicked.' [when the righteous succumb to sin, it is as harmful as if the public well were poisoned. Because the darkness of such an act... of taking a life... will spread to friends, neighbors... the entire community.] That sounds like ominous foreshadowing to me. Maybe it was a red herring about DD, but would Karen be considered 'righteous'?
She's killed Wesley, she claims it wasn't the first time, she's got some guilt (and some legit blame) for Ben's death, too, and there's a lot of drinking and exhaustion happening with her there in eps 12&13 and some nods about maybe drugs coming back into the picture. Unlike Matt who has finally opened up about his own DD-shaped secret and now has a support system in place, Karen is being crushed under her own silence.
Where do you guys see her character going next season? Does she become the Ben Urich reporter replacement on the show? Does she remain a secretary to N&M? I don't want to see her paired up with Matt at all, but she spent most of S1 looking at him with some obvious designs but never really acting on it, and god help us all if she finds out he's DD because I feel like she's already crushing on DD, too. And if Karen is holding a torch for Matt, what happens to that when Elektra comes into the picture next season? I don't think things will go the Foggy/Karen route, either, so where does Karen go from here?
hoo boy. this is a hell of a question so i'm going to try to answer it to the best of my ability with a numerical list, otherwise i am sure i won't hit everything. let me know if you have any further questions, anon.
1. karen does end up addicted to drugs and becomes a sex worker. however, in the comics, this is after she gets involved with matt and decides she's done with being Daredevil's Girlfriend and Matt Murdock's Secretary. she goes to california to try to establish her own career, to horrible results. later on she comes back to new york and ends up selling matt's identity to the kingpin for drugs, matt almost is outed as daredevil, but of course doesn't blame karen and forgives her easily. karen works to get clean but ultimately is killed by bullseye, iirc.
2. i don't doubt that karen killing wesley in self-defense is going to be the show's way of corrupting her. since this is essentially season zero of matt's story, the characters need to join matt in a somewhat dark place. he can't be the only one keeping secrets, after all. claire's scary dark place is following her kidnapping and realizing that being involved with matt could plausibly get her killed. foggy's scary dark place is knowing that matt has been lying to him for almost the entirety of their friendship, and knowing he's going to have to help matt keep these secrets. these characters clearly need to be broken from being completely assured of their safety or happiness.
3. i'm guessing karen's going to stay a secretary of N&M, despite everything. i can't really say what she'll choose to do on her off hours since she's obviously her own person, but for faithfulness to the comics' sake, she'll probably stay a secretary as her paycheck occupation.
4. surprise! i also dislike the pairing off of matt and karen! i understand that the original concept of her character was to be the Superhero's Girlfriend, but she's grown well beyond that, and if she only exists for matt to save later and then maybe make out with they'd be wasting a hell of a brave woman in the show. as for elektra, since they seem to be keeping faithful to "the man without fear" by frank miller: elektra's a thing of the past, romance-wise. matt and elektra had a fling in college, they still flirt as adults and have hooked up once or twice, but it was never a permanent thing. my guess is they're gonna be doing more college flashbacks featuring matt and elektra flirting at a bar, etc. and when elektra shows back up both karen and foggy are probably going to go "wtf?" and maybe be a bit jealous, but yeah, elektra's probably not going to be a legit contender for a long-standing romance, no more than claire was.
5. funny story about foggy/karen, actually. in daredevil yellow, they explain that foggy was constantly crushing on karen while karen only had eyes for matt, to the point where foggy actually bought her a ring and nearly proposed to her. overall i really hate romance triangles, if i had it my way the three of them would be in one big happy polyamorous relationship, but as you know, Monogamy Rules.
overall i just hope that romance stays by the wayside. if any major romance stuff starts up my eyes will probably glaze the fuck over and i will be writing a lot of angry tweets to the showrunners. i'm not quite sure what'll happen to karen but i hope that the creators have the good sense to not fall into old misogynistic pitfalls that old silver age writers were constantly stuck in during those days.
1. karen does end up addicted to drugs and becomes a sex worker. however, in the comics, this is after she gets involved with matt and decides she's done with being Daredevil's Girlfriend and Matt Murdock's Secretary. she goes to california to try to establish her own career, to horrible results. later on she comes back to new york and ends up selling matt's identity to the kingpin for drugs, matt almost is outed as daredevil, but of course doesn't blame karen and forgives her easily. karen works to get clean but ultimately is killed by bullseye, iirc.
2. i don't doubt that karen killing wesley in self-defense is going to be the show's way of corrupting her. since this is essentially season zero of matt's story, the characters need to join matt in a somewhat dark place. he can't be the only one keeping secrets, after all. claire's scary dark place is following her kidnapping and realizing that being involved with matt could plausibly get her killed. foggy's scary dark place is knowing that matt has been lying to him for almost the entirety of their friendship, and knowing he's going to have to help matt keep these secrets. these characters clearly need to be broken from being completely assured of their safety or happiness.
3. i'm guessing karen's going to stay a secretary of N&M, despite everything. i can't really say what she'll choose to do on her off hours since she's obviously her own person, but for faithfulness to the comics' sake, she'll probably stay a secretary as her paycheck occupation.
4. surprise! i also dislike the pairing off of matt and karen! i understand that the original concept of her character was to be the Superhero's Girlfriend, but she's grown well beyond that, and if she only exists for matt to save later and then maybe make out with they'd be wasting a hell of a brave woman in the show. as for elektra, since they seem to be keeping faithful to "the man without fear" by frank miller: elektra's a thing of the past, romance-wise. matt and elektra had a fling in college, they still flirt as adults and have hooked up once or twice, but it was never a permanent thing. my guess is they're gonna be doing more college flashbacks featuring matt and elektra flirting at a bar, etc. and when elektra shows back up both karen and foggy are probably going to go "wtf?" and maybe be a bit jealous, but yeah, elektra's probably not going to be a legit contender for a long-standing romance, no more than claire was.
5. funny story about foggy/karen, actually. in daredevil yellow, they explain that foggy was constantly crushing on karen while karen only had eyes for matt, to the point where foggy actually bought her a ring and nearly proposed to her. overall i really hate romance triangles, if i had it my way the three of them would be in one big happy polyamorous relationship, but as you know, Monogamy Rules.
overall i just hope that romance stays by the wayside. if any major romance stuff starts up my eyes will probably glaze the fuck over and i will be writing a lot of angry tweets to the showrunners. i'm not quite sure what'll happen to karen but i hope that the creators have the good sense to not fall into old misogynistic pitfalls that old silver age writers were constantly stuck in during those days.
He has enhanced senses like Matt too, right? But where did they come from? Was his mom exposed to the mystery chemicals when she was pregnant, causing him to be born blind and with enhanced senses? Or are his super senses unrelated to his blindness?
Anybody got any theories? Is there anything about this in the comics?
Anybody got any theories? Is there anything about this in the comics?
OP - It's always good to chat with another anon who is familiar with the comics history. :) It's also good to chat with nuDD fans because they're not coming into the series with our mental baggage and scar tissue from however many years of reading DD. I'll cruise through here and reply in order:
1. I'm glad you parse this out; though totally unnecessary for me, it's good for new fans if they're curious re: Karen's comics history. The reason I chucked this question up was because this MCU Karen isn't sticking to the script. They've obviously pulled some deep cuts from the comics, but in the show Karen sounds like she's already done her porn and drugs act so the mass confusion of readers blaming Matt for Karen's choices is out of the question in the MCU, for which I'm glad. This Karen comes to us with warts and all and that's fine, that's great, but since she hasn't gotten to the 'sell Matt's identity' place yet, I'm wondering if that's what's going to happen in S2. Karen's story is being shown to us en media res so I'm waiting and wondering if they're really going to go there in some way. The show has been very good at taking the loooooong history of DD and giving us this beautiful amalgam of him in nu!Matt Murdock, so I'm expecting the same of Foggy and Karen, though Karen likely won't outstay her welcome so I'm wondering at what point she exits the show and what does she leave in her wake.
2. I was listening to Wesley's speech before Karen shoots him and he's very clear about how all her choices have brought her to that specific moment in time, and what will happen to her and those she loves once Wilson finds out. It's a heavy reminder to the audience that there are consequences pending. The fallout from killing a man, Fisk's man, however warranted, is still pending consequences from either Wilson Fisk and/or the law, maybe both. And we saw what Wilson did to Ben. It does bother me that she already knows what Fisk is capable of and will probably do to her friends and/or family, especially after Ben's funeral, but still refuses to tell anybody. Fun fact: Karen holds Wesley's gun like a pro, she steadies the shooting hand in the palm of her other. And there's no tremble. No, that's not the first time she's shot someone. This show is damn good at small details.
3. I know there's no shame in being office admin, but most of the season Karen's felt like she's trying to exorcise old demons (sort of like Matt -- this show is chock full of parallels between characters), probably from her porn/drugs/shooting people background, but she's jumping on any 'cause' like it's her next fix. And in people with addiction issues, they do tend to substitute one fixation/obsession with another.
4. See, having Elektra and Bullseye show up in the same season makes me think we're going to get that brutal comic canon killing, and if the show is going to kill Elektra, then I doubt they're going to kill Karen, too. But I noticed Karen's reaction to Matt talking to Vanessa and she seemed a little jealous but that made me think Matt should be completely aware of how Karen feels about him by now, yes, but he hasn't encouraged her at all (and I hope he doesn't), which leads me to the next comment.
5. Yes, in DD Yellow iirc when Matt found out Foggy wanted to propose he removed himself from the 3-way, and in the end it didn't matter because Karen wanted Matt anyway. The beautiful kicker to this show is that there have been very subtle nods to same sex pairings as well as het pairings, they didn't exclude anyone, the flow chart is a riot. :) So nods to all the obvious het couples, but also nods to Wilson/Wesley, and even Matt/Foggy. I'm sorry, this is the best thing ever to me. Yes, fandom has taken Matt and shoved him into every pairing possible, and has laughed about all the gratuitous flirting happening between Matt and Foggy, but you know what, it IS gratuitous. The show didn't have to give us those and they did, and they made it BEAUTIFUL. They gave us an entire episode devoted to those two having an argument like a married couple dealing with an infidelity rather than explain away the argument in 10 minutes of We good, bro? Sorry, bro. Yeah, we good, bro, we good. No the tremors are still echoing until the very last episode, this is a BFD. But I'm considering the way that Matt must know Karen is attracted to him, shouldn't he? And he doesn't engage her over it, he doesn't take advantage, he just keeps keeping on. Couldn't he have done the same thing with Foggy? And could have done it for years, which would explain a little more about Foggy being so freaked out about Matt knowing when Foggy was lying and Matt going along with it? Matt couldn't act on it because Foggy means more to him than sex, and Matt's got that whole serial monogamist thing working for him to scratch those itches anyway, but their breakup is taken so hard on each side, there's some deep, deep fissures for that hurt to dig so deep. God, but I really love this show and all the way they managed to respect DD's comics history while giving us an entirely new canvas to work with and new possibilities.
(words words feels words sorry)
1. I'm glad you parse this out; though totally unnecessary for me, it's good for new fans if they're curious re: Karen's comics history. The reason I chucked this question up was because this MCU Karen isn't sticking to the script. They've obviously pulled some deep cuts from the comics, but in the show Karen sounds like she's already done her porn and drugs act so the mass confusion of readers blaming Matt for Karen's choices is out of the question in the MCU, for which I'm glad. This Karen comes to us with warts and all and that's fine, that's great, but since she hasn't gotten to the 'sell Matt's identity' place yet, I'm wondering if that's what's going to happen in S2. Karen's story is being shown to us en media res so I'm waiting and wondering if they're really going to go there in some way. The show has been very good at taking the loooooong history of DD and giving us this beautiful amalgam of him in nu!Matt Murdock, so I'm expecting the same of Foggy and Karen, though Karen likely won't outstay her welcome so I'm wondering at what point she exits the show and what does she leave in her wake.
2. I was listening to Wesley's speech before Karen shoots him and he's very clear about how all her choices have brought her to that specific moment in time, and what will happen to her and those she loves once Wilson finds out. It's a heavy reminder to the audience that there are consequences pending. The fallout from killing a man, Fisk's man, however warranted, is still pending consequences from either Wilson Fisk and/or the law, maybe both. And we saw what Wilson did to Ben. It does bother me that she already knows what Fisk is capable of and will probably do to her friends and/or family, especially after Ben's funeral, but still refuses to tell anybody. Fun fact: Karen holds Wesley's gun like a pro, she steadies the shooting hand in the palm of her other. And there's no tremble. No, that's not the first time she's shot someone. This show is damn good at small details.
3. I know there's no shame in being office admin, but most of the season Karen's felt like she's trying to exorcise old demons (sort of like Matt -- this show is chock full of parallels between characters), probably from her porn/drugs/shooting people background, but she's jumping on any 'cause' like it's her next fix. And in people with addiction issues, they do tend to substitute one fixation/obsession with another.
4. See, having Elektra and Bullseye show up in the same season makes me think we're going to get that brutal comic canon killing, and if the show is going to kill Elektra, then I doubt they're going to kill Karen, too. But I noticed Karen's reaction to Matt talking to Vanessa and she seemed a little jealous but that made me think Matt should be completely aware of how Karen feels about him by now, yes, but he hasn't encouraged her at all (and I hope he doesn't), which leads me to the next comment.
5. Yes, in DD Yellow iirc when Matt found out Foggy wanted to propose he removed himself from the 3-way, and in the end it didn't matter because Karen wanted Matt anyway. The beautiful kicker to this show is that there have been very subtle nods to same sex pairings as well as het pairings, they didn't exclude anyone, the flow chart is a riot. :) So nods to all the obvious het couples, but also nods to Wilson/Wesley, and even Matt/Foggy. I'm sorry, this is the best thing ever to me. Yes, fandom has taken Matt and shoved him into every pairing possible, and has laughed about all the gratuitous flirting happening between Matt and Foggy, but you know what, it IS gratuitous. The show didn't have to give us those and they did, and they made it BEAUTIFUL. They gave us an entire episode devoted to those two having an argument like a married couple dealing with an infidelity rather than explain away the argument in 10 minutes of We good, bro? Sorry, bro. Yeah, we good, bro, we good. No the tremors are still echoing until the very last episode, this is a BFD. But I'm considering the way that Matt must know Karen is attracted to him, shouldn't he? And he doesn't engage her over it, he doesn't take advantage, he just keeps keeping on. Couldn't he have done the same thing with Foggy? And could have done it for years, which would explain a little more about Foggy being so freaked out about Matt knowing when Foggy was lying and Matt going along with it? Matt couldn't act on it because Foggy means more to him than sex, and Matt's got that whole serial monogamist thing working for him to scratch those itches anyway, but their breakup is taken so hard on each side, there's some deep, deep fissures for that hurt to dig so deep. God, but I really love this show and all the way they managed to respect DD's comics history while giving us an entirely new canvas to work with and new possibilities.
(words words feels words sorry)
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