daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

Yeah, but... the difference between Matt and people in the police/army is that Matt is actively breaking the law. And he's doing it in a way that will ABSOLUTELY take Foggy down with him. (If Foggy doesn't get put behind bars as an accomplice then he's at least going to get disbarred.) That's not even going into what could happen to him if Matt's enemies figure out Matt's identity and decide to go after Foggy in revenge.

So it's not even as cut and dry as 'Matt is putting the needs of others over his friends.' What's really going on is, 'Matt is putting his friends IN DANGER so he can help others.' And that's a whole 'nother ballgame. Foggy has every right in world to be pissed at what Matt's doing.

Matt's latest problem was tied into the Marvel Secret Wars which affected most heroes in terrible ways (you can thank Victor Von Doom & Reed Richards for screwing everybody over) so I suspect Matt's choice was more of a Hobson's Choice than anything else. We'll see as the series continues.

But Foggy also has every right in the world to drop Matt completely and walk away, which he did and Matt let him go, but he came back. Foggy does bear responsibility now, he's made his choice.

Co-signed. Foggy's actually complicit now AND Foggy's breaking the law too, don't forget that he got Marci involved and they could both be disbarred for what they did to Landman and Zack and he did that without Matt knowing anything. Please don't try to make Foggy more pure than everyone else, they're all guilty of something. That's something I really love about daredevil, that everybody had depth and shows character growth and nobody is a pure boring cinnamon roll.

Foggy knows that what Matt does is good but he is gonna worry anyways and he will say to Matt and I believe that's what got Matt worked up in that scene in the trailers.
He doesn't need a reminder of what he does both Matt and Foggy are fuvking things up with the other and it's gonna get worse before it gets better

Late to this but I'm wondering if the ayrt is the commenter who was putting in suggestions and non-requests, like guesses, on what they think the author would/should do next. Because this thread happened and those long comments seem to have stopped now, and they were the only long comments I've seen that were regularly side stepped.

Not to dig at them but it would explain a few things. As a writer in another fandom it's difficult to reply to those kind of comments which are half praise and half derailment.

Well, I will suggest Frank Miller's Born Again, where the basic tone of modern Daredevil is made. And the same author's Elektra Saga, from which the new writers develop the bad habit of killing the last girlfriend and create their new one, but it explains why Matt always easily sunks in sadness and violence. Then the mini "Daredevil: Man without Fear".

Whole volume 2 is excellent, until Ed Brubaker made Milla mad. I mean that they just want to create tragedy, not tell a good story. Shadowland is totally a mess, let us forget it.

Waid's run is recommended oftenly, of course he leads Murdock and daredevil walk back to the sun. He gave DD lots of pain, but different from the former writers in middle of volume 2, he also gave the poor hero hope and victory. If you already read volume, it will make you feel the desperate trying to be happy and pull himself effort made by Matt.

Hi, newbie posting. I'm re-watching old episodes in anticipation of the new season (hurrah) and I'm just struck again by the father and son relationship portrayed. There aren't that many scenes with Jack and Matt so I'm blown away with how much they convey - it's lovely. Sad, and desperate at times but there is so much love between them it hurts. I was wondering if this was faithful to the comics and if Jack in any of the various verses, makes a return appearance?

Also, I've wandered across this fandom so early I've actually caught up on all the fanfic on Ao3. I need more! Any recs would be appreciated.

DA I think you just summed up why I couldn't finish Jessica Jones. I wanted to like it so badly but some episodes didn't go anywhere. I'm on board for slow storytelling but I can't do glacier.

The line, although appropriate, is actually used in The Killing Joke between Batman and the Joker and it is about Joker killing Batman's 'family'. There's always the moral question of what does it take to make a hero into a killer.

I think the reason they use that line on the show is because it IS attached to another daredevil comic canon scene between Frank and Matt where Matt has lost everything, has been outed as DD, is in prison with Fisk awaiting trial, thinks Foggy is dead (in one of THE shittiest choices Foggy ever makes is to let Matt think he's dead and go into witness protection), and Fisk is toying with him daily. There is NO reason to not turn into a killer besides Matt's morals and he's on the verge of giving up. Frank finds out what's happening, essentially gets himself thrown intro prison to help Matt and break him out, and as they're going their separate ways he tells Matt he did it because 'You don't want to be me. You needed to remember that.' I hope we get a similar chat between Frank and Matt this season.

(in one of THE shittiest choices Foggy ever makes is to let Matt think he's dead and go into witness protection)

Did Foggy have a choice in that? I thought I read somewhere that it was orchestrated by Vanessa?

Well, I strongly recommend reading the mini-series comic "Daredevil: Battlin' Jack Murdock".

^^ Yeah, if anything that's really a case of Foggy being put in a shitty situation because of Matt's choices, not the other way around.

Vanessa didn't set it up so much as legit have Foggy actually shanked in Matt's prison after Foggy visits him to make Matt suffer and hear him die.

Foggy was, in my memory, basically told in the ambulance that he was being put into witness protection for his own good. In fact, the next time you see Foggy after his supposed death, he's actually trying to contact Matt and escape witness protection because he's worried about Matt. (Despite the fact that Matt's outing just tanked their practice and led Foggy to be the one to decide perjuring themselves was worth it to protect his secret).

So yeah... I am actually impressed by that anon's ability to stubbornly blame Foggy for that one. That's kind of a fucked up interpretation of events.

SA - Just to add to the point... Foggy doesn't "let Matt think he's dead". Matt thinks Foggy is dead because he straight up dies in the ambulance following multiple shanking stab wounds incurred while looking out for Matt. To clarify.

I've had this sitting on my phone foreveeer, so - here it is. :D

Sharing The Love - Authors

ChuckleVoodoos deserves her own category. She sheer amount of quality content she put out in such a short amount of time was staggering. When I think of ChuckleVoodoos my mind brings up romcoms and smoopiness and at least one moment per fic that makes my breath catch.

My go-tos for her are Marshmallow Matrix (http://archiveofourown.org/works/3955408) and Daredevils Don't Drink Decaf (http://archiveofourown.org/works/3887044). But really, she's got something for everyone.

poisonivory also deserves her own category. I cannot say enough about her stuff, seriously. Some days I feel like all my headcanons come from her fics. Incredibly well-written, from characterization to humor to just general writing craft. (Her sentence structures, excuse me while I have a moment.)

Under The Hide Of Me is LOVE (http://archiveofourown.org/works/5286485/chapters/12203051) as is Something Dumb To Do (http://archiveofourown.org/works/4287534/chapters/9712053) and Private Property (http://archiveofourown.org/works/4753766) and... look, just go read all of it. You'll thank me.

Ahavaa wrote a number of wonderfully hot fics and WIPs* with a really distinctive style. Since reccing the WIPs might not really be fair, I'm going to rec the OT4 standalone one here - Teamwork (Makes the Dream Work) (http://archiveofourown.org/works/3976441).

*Re: WIPs - Unfortunately, someone took it upon themselves to be way. too. pushy. about one of her fics and turned her off from finishing them. Which, let's just make this a PSA: DON'T DO THAT. Okay? Okay.

Katbelle - haha, she's is labeled in my head as the Matt/Foggy shipper who doesn't ship Matt/Foggy. Well written stuff, but ow ow ow. If angst and one-sided relationships are your cup of tea, start here. My only wish is that one day she will write something with a happy ending that I will be able to reread without pain to my heart's content. For a rec - (just find who you love through) true love's kiss (http://archiveofourown.org/works/5104916). Spoiler - this doesn't have a Yay! Happy Ending.

Asidian might have left the fandom, which is sad because I adored her A Lot To Unlearn series (http://archiveofourown.org/series/270889). The bit with the dinosaurs? Oh, my heart. She's very good at picking imagery that stays with you, which is really something when there are no actual visual descriptions in the story because the POV character is blind. I hope she comes back.

returnsandreturns writes Matt and Foggy in a way that makes me want to cuddle them almost as much as they want to cuddle each other. Even the porn has a warm, fluffy feeling, I don't know how she does it. She's done girl!Foggy - girl inform me (http://archiveofourown.org/works/5072773/chapters/11665462), girl!Matt - mama said knock you out (http://archiveofourown.org/works/6080442), and a bunch of adorable college fic - drink to your health (and you'll drink to mine) (http://archiveofourown.org/works/5193029). Go check it out.

torrential, for me, is the most surprising author on this list in an amazingly good way. She wrote a bunch of ridiculously hot fics, like Sensitive (http://archiveofourown.org/works/4679810) and I Gather Up Your Incense with Spice (http://archiveofourown.org/works/4809914). And then it turns out she...also wrote the Bakery AU??? Not that I'm complaining, not at all. It's still a WIP, but here's the AO3 link so you can start on the baked goods craving now - Our Daily Bread (http://archiveofourown.org/works/5767387/chapters/13290157).

anonymousdaredevils is actually a collective account for the meme, but I figured I'd share some of my favorites. :D

don't wanna know what you're about (just want your dirty little mouth) - Dubcon, "Matt has to suck Foggy's cock. If they don't, [badguy] will kill [hostage]." (http://archiveofourown.org/works/4172397)

(Smile) Like You Mean It (http://archiveofourown.org/works/4048561)

a baker's mile in your shoes (http://archiveofourown.org/works/4158951)

giving it up (http://archiveofourown.org/works/5231237/chapters/12064412)

Um, but going back into what orchestrated it, yes there were a lot of hands behind the scenes pulling strings to make things happen, so if that's true then I don't understand why people stubbornly selectively say Foggy's not to blame because it was orchestrated, buuuut... in the same breath they also say everything was Matt's fault and nevermind the orchestration? Foggy was seriously complicit in what went down, what got them to that point. When Matt was first accused, he was the one who wanted to come out and admit it, and it was Foggy who shot him down and told him to shut the hell up and they were going to fight it, they were going to straight up lie to all the papers and media and counter sue. Which is weird because in Waid's run they mentioned how that was all Matt's fault and Matt's decision and uh nope, (retcon is a thing and Matt makes a lot of bad life choices but I wish they'd let Foggy have at least that one important moment in Matt's history but then again Waid believed Foggy was a coward who needed very specific Matt-related motivation to be action-courageous and I kind of don't buy that) that was Foggy's decision and Matt agreed with it. But again, retcon; we can't even blame an unreliable narrator because Matt and Foggy had that whole argument over Matt coming out.

I do think Foggy had plans to stay gone and out of Matt's life when he was shanked in prison, he was scared to death and he was hoping Matt would forgive him, he didn't plan to go back until he was healing up and started worrying about Matt. Like, honestly, did he ever actually think he wasn't going to worry about Matt in witness protection? In what world does Foggy Nelson ever not worry about Matt Murdock? It was supposed to be his thing, his whole thing, in his own words it defined him as a person, at least until the most recent run I guess.

^ THIS. MATT LET FOGGY GO. And Foggy came back of his own accord. I'm dying to see where this leaves them in s2 honestly.

Yooo I don't know about the comic book whatever but I have noticed what you're saying that people here are real quick to forgive Foggy anything while blaming Matt for the same stuff and I don't get it? Matt and Foggy seemed pretty even in the loveable asshole olympics in season one, they both did heroic things, they're both stalkers who break the law for the greater good. They help people in different ways so why the low level rage in only Matt's direction? What did I miss?

Anon who originally made the point about it NOT being Foggy's fault -

Here's the thing. I don't think Foggy's a saint. I'm not absolving him of his involvement in being the one to tell Matt not to simply come out as Daredevil from the beginning. But I just think it's a bit much to blame him for the prison shanking and subsequent decision to temporarily stay in witness protection? Like, that's a crazy expectation for how someone would act to assume that he would do anything different or even had the power to do anything differently in that specific scenario, orchestrated or not.

I'm not saying it's 100% Matt's fault he's in jail, or that it's 100% Matt's fault he got shanked, but let's face facts - at the end of the day, the decision to BE DAREDEVIL, period, was Matt's to make despite the wide-reaching impact it had on Foggy's life. And Foggy has always stuck by him through almost all of that, so I don't think it's shitty of him to nearly die and then allow witness protection to look out for him for a bit. I also think that it was never a case of him wanting to be in witness protection, because the minute he's healed he's trying to contact Matt and figure out what's going on. He knew he was Matt's lawyer and what the stakes were for Matt.

And I'll agree with you that painting Foggy as a saint is unfair. I actually hate when people do that too. But there is also a tendency among Daredevil fans (especially those for the show) to similarly try and paint Matt as a cinnamon roll whose decision to be Daredevil is saintly and heroic and all about his wanting to do the right thing vs. Foggy being kind of a nag who just wants to be pissy with him about it. And both characterizations are ridiculous.

I called out the blaming Foggy in the particular scenario stated only because I thought that in that case specifically it was really reaching to blame Foggy and let Matt off the hook, not because I don't think Foggy's guilty of anything or Matt's always in the wrong. It seemed to me to be an attempt to absolve Matt of responsibility for all of the stuff that went down related to his outing and paint him as a victim rather than a person whose choices (made with agency and knowing full well what might happen at the time) caught up with him.

I agree with the above anons that really it's all about balancing both of them as characters who collectively together often make fucked up choices, including things like faking Foggy's death later on in Waid's run or the things that happened with relation to Milla. I'm not completing in the camp of either of them.

It's Multiamory March on Tumblr, so I thought this might be a nice time to share those neglected polyship prompts you'd love to see filled. Who knows, maybe someone will be inspired to give them a try. :)

Link to the Tumblr tag, for those interested:
https://www.tumblr.com/tagged/multiamory-march

:3 i'm on this list and it kinda made my night, anon, thank you

OP

Pfff, no, thank YOU. <3

http://comicsalliance.com/daredevil-season-2-review/

My fave part (besides how awesome they make Punisher and Elektra sound and their confidence in Charlie Cox's ability to romance anyone):

"What makes Daredevil Season 2 more effective than its predecessor is the improved spotlight for Foggy and Karen, perhaps better served by the reduction of supporting cast like Rosario Dawson (whose role has understandably been spread amongst the other series) and the sorely-missed Vondie Curtis-Hall. Season 2 holds back most of its legal proceedings for a later point, but wrings a tremendous strain out of Foggy knowing Matt’s secret, and confidently emphasizes Foggy’s legal prowess against a rival D.A., moreso than his comic relief. Karen too finds much more agency outside Season 1’s early damsel role, placing a love interest angle firmly behind her investigation of the Punisher, to the point one character notes that Ben Urich must be smiling down on her gumption."

Soooooo... basically all kinds of DD fans will find something to love.

FOGGY AND KAREN FOREVER! I'm so relieved to hear that!

Ben Urich must be smiling down on her gumption.

So very glad for this!!! Yes

This is the nicest Kinkmeme I'm on, the Force Awakens kinkmeme is full of mean wankers, drove a few people away (judging by their discussion post) and any other kinkmeme I've been on is dead or dying....

Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

Re: Trailer part two! It's all about Elektra

Re: Season 2 Predictions (spoilery, if true)

Re: Trailer part two! It's all about Elektra

Re: Trailer part two! It's all about Elektra

Re: Trailer part two! It's all about Elektra

Re: Fics and Comments

no subject

Jack and Matt Murdock

Re: Trailer part two! It's all about Elektra

Re: Matt deciding to kill Fisk vs deciding to kill the Punisher

Re: Matt deciding to kill Fisk vs deciding to kill the Punisher

Re: Jack and Matt Murdock

Re: Matt deciding to kill Fisk vs deciding to kill the Punisher

Re: Matt deciding to kill Fisk vs deciding to kill the Punisher

Sharing the Love - Recs

Re: Matt deciding to kill Fisk vs deciding to kill the Punisher

Re: Trailer part two! It's all about Elektra

Re: Matt deciding to kill Fisk vs deciding to kill the Punisher

Re: Matt deciding to kill Fisk vs deciding to kill the Punisher

Polyship prompts

Re: Sharing the Love - Recs

Re: Sharing the Love - Recs

REVIEWS ARE IN AND HOLY SHIT THEY ARE SO EXCITING!

Re: REVIEWS ARE IN AND HOLY SHIT THEY ARE SO EXCITING!

Re: Have you been on other kinkmemes? How are they the same/different from the DD kinkmeme?