daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

I see a lot of posts on tumblr about this... so is Foggy Jewish? If he is, should we recast? Like get a Jewish actor instead of Elden?

I think this is a case of interpretation, or a headcanon becoming so popular it's practically canon.

I forget if there was anything specific in the show which makes people lean towards interpreting him as Jewish. There's probably something.

In the comics it's never really stated but you might like to check out the analysis at this webpage that shows evidence of him being Episcopalian (although how religious he is we can't say);
http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/Foggy_Nelson.html

This website is great in general, they've got sourced information about the religion for HEAPS of comic characters.

It's probably because of this line:

"Misspelling Hanukkah is a mistake!"

lol, "Should 'we' recast?"

Yeah sure, the show is just gonna randomly replace one actor with another one. It's not like there are contracts that everyone signed, or anything.

Why don't 'we' recast Matt with a blind actor while we're at it? One who is an actual ninja with super senses.

(I'm being facetious. I just find the recent string of "Let's replace Elden!" or "Foggy is useless!" posts kind of funny)

Foggy is Irish just like Matt and it's highly likely that he is culturally Catholic.

I started my fandom journey sith the Sherlock Kink Meme and it was such a toxic place. I picked up an awful lot of bad habits there (lowkey kinkshaming, open flaming, passive-aggressive counterprompting, trashing people's identities because they didn't share my ships...) I had no idea that wasn't just how fandom was, and it's taken a good while to unlearn that.

And because it was a relatively safe way to explore my kinks, chief among which is noncon so it probably could have been worse, I stayed there for about three years. When I quit - because Moffat trashed asexuality as "boring" and I didn't want anything to do with Sherlock any more, o gods of irony forgive me - my anxiety got so much better. I got so much more sleep, worried so much less about what person was going to pick my latest fill apart, stopped isolating myself, became kinder IRL. And it was a holistic thing, and other factors did contribute to my improved wellbeing, but I still think leaving the Sherlock Kink Meme was the best thing my nineteen year old self did. I'm ashamed it took so long, but it wasn't quite too late.

So yeah, anon. I feel you. This meme is a healthy place. <3

OP would like to echo an above sentiment. We all have days like that. For the record, I think there was fault on all sides and you were justified in letting people know your NoTP just as they were justified in speculating on possible directions, and that post alone wouldn't have got my back up too much. It contributed but was also clearly more about communication issues than anyone intentionally hurting anyone else.

Hope you've had better days since, anon. :)

Oh gosh, the Sherlock fandom.

That's mainly why I was so uncomfortable with some of the Karen "hate" that was happening here on earlier posts. The hate directed at a lot of the female characters in the Sherlock fandom is unreal, and I eventually left the fandom because I just could not stand the divisiveness and nastiness over Mary any longer. I'm so glad that, for the most part, the lady characters in this fandom aren't being trashed.

I've seen a couple posts in the other prompts on here that were passive-aggressive counterprompting (thank you, for giving a term to that phenomenon), but that doesn't happen much anymore. Thankfully, we have an excellent mod who allows discourse but steps in when it devolves into wank.

So I just saw Mockingjay Part One, and DAMN... He was really good as Pollux.

Oh god the Sherlock kink meme. I wasn't even on there very long and they did serious damage to my already low self-esteem. I had to delete my LJ and all my work because they flamed me for first me getting worked up over their general nastiness on the rant meme and then I wrote a very personal fill that everyone tore to shreds and honestly? Even though at the moment my presence in fandom namespace is just about nil and I was on that meme three and a half years ago for like a month I still have anxieties that someone will somehow find me and humiliate me all over again.

God, looking back too the behavior of some people was just shameful because I s2g I was 19 and the people picking on me had to be at least twice my age some of them? What a bunch of assholes.

Has anyone read the All-New All-Different Point One that came out today yet?

It's got a Daredevil story that introduces his new sidekick (who is awesome by the way - I'm now even more excited for where they're going with it).

And it turns out that STICK is going to be a character in the new Contest of Champions series - they've brought him back from the dead, and he looks an awful lot like Scott Glenn! Gee, I wonder if that's a coincidence. Wasn't expecting to see him in the mix so early on, but that's also exciting and means I will have to check the first issue of Contest of Champions that came out today out now too.

I really want the bracelet to be a gift from Matt. PLEASE SHOW. THIS IS SUDDENLY REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME RIGHT NOW.

Or Protestant, if he's Northern Irish.

There's no history in the comics of him having any kind of religious background, specifically a Jewish one.

I haven't read it yet. Any news on Kirsten? I'll be so sad if she's gone.

And it turns out that STICK is going to be a character in the new Contest of Champions series

LOL, goodbye Mapone.

The Irish immigrants who came to America during the Irish Potato Famine and particularly those who came to Hell's Kitchen were predominantly Catholic because the poorest citizens in Ireland at the time were Catholics and the poor relied on the potato the most for their food. Hell's Kitchen up through the nineties before its gentrification was a working class Irish neighborhood (+Puerto Ricans but they came along a bit later). Foggy and Matt's families are both working class because Irish Catholics in particular in New York struggles to assimilate due to anti Irish and anti Catholic sentiment up until very recently. 'It's not every day a Nelson comes out of the land of hardware stores and cured meats." or something to that effect. Likewise Irish Catholics because of such strong prejudice would have been unwilling to convert - their churches got burned down etc. by Protestants which wouldn't exactly have given them the highest incentive to want to assimilate if they even would have been allowed. Added evidence includes his big family "the whole Nelson brood."

If he wasn't raised Catholic his family is probably secular. The people labeling him Jewish have not done their homework because unless he is a convert he would not be.

Sources below my iPad is being a pain in the ass and has erased this post like four times to my irritation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/arts/17hell.html?oref=slogin
http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/famine/america.htm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_%28Ireland%29#/search
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell%27s_Kitchen

Other sources: I grew up Catholic (Italian family from New Jersey) and I have a friend from agricultural upstate New York who is Irish Catholic.

This website is really cool! One thing though - in the comics, Foggy didn't grow up in Hell's Kitchen nor was he working class. In the show he is. Prior to gentrification, an Episcopalian in Hell's Kitchen would have been rare.

To be fair, you are assuming all of this based on his father's last name.

Keeping in mind that I am not Jewish, wikipedia advises me that:

"In general, Orthodox Judaism considers individuals born of Jewish mothers to be Jewish, even if they convert to or are raised in another religion. Reform Judaism views Jews who convert to or are raised in another religion as non-Jews."

In New York City with it's large Jewish population, it's incredibly possible that even if his father's background is Irish Catholic, he could have a Jewish mother and have been raised Jewish or be considered Jewish. We know nothing about his mother's background except that she wanted him to be a butcher, and kosher butcher shops are a thing.

So maybe leave the Jewish people embracing that headcanon in peace and let them have it if they want it.

Without knowing anything about his parents (or Matt's mother too), I would also encourage against rejecting biracial or other multi-ethnic Foggy or Matt headcanons. Assuming that something will never be canon (which tells you something about the state of Hollywood, really) is not the same as it not being canon.

SA - And that was not meant to be bitchy, just to clarify. I love that people are so invested in the research and curious about discussing this.

I'm not assuming anything on Foggy's last name. I'm assuming it based on his self identifying as Irish in canon, Hell's Kitchen being historically an Irish Catholic neighborhood, and his references to being working class with a big family. Most people who are 'Hell's Kitchen born and raised' are not Jewish by demographic and while he could be multiethnic in that area and other ethnic areas in New York, marrying within your own ethnicity and religious background is very common.

Nor am I not letting anyone not have peace? I don't have a namespace account anywhere except ao3 and I am merely expressing my knowledge of the area because I have been very curious about Hell's Kitchen since reading and watching Daredevil.

Again I stress that I really wasn't trying to be bitchy. I can 100% see where you're coming from based on the history and the area. I didn't mean "leave in peace" in the sense that anyone is harassing or giving anyone that hard a time really, just that it shouldn't be assumed that someone hasn't done their homework who has that headcanon, because there are ways to explore it that do make sense.

Sorry if it came across as combative. I didn't mean for it to be. I just feel like if someone has that headcanon, it may be for a personal reason as well, and they shouldn't have to go to great lengths to justify it or have the default assumption be that they're wrong by other fans.

It's ok. Personally I just know a lot of Irish Catholics in New York are still struggling with the aftermath of anti Irish and anti Catholic sentiment and I know in fandom a lot of people don't do their homework and might not know this? And in general I was just trying to answer a question - in my opinion, he probably isn't but I don't like have full say obviously on who headcanons what.

I am also very protective of Catholic characters in fandom in general. In a lot of ways growing up Catholic is a cultural thing much like growing up Mormon or Jewish so I want characters to be Catholic like me. I apologize for being defensive.

Do you ever see Foggy giving up bacon?

Ayrt would like to apologise on behalf of everyone in that fandom and also myself, in case I was one of the people who was awful to you. I'm glad you got out when it went sour, and I hope you find lots more happy spaces.

Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

Is Foggy Jewish?

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Re: Troll prompts and sudden meanness?

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Annnnnyyyy one up for talking about Elden?

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All-New All-Different Point One and Daredevil!

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