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Re: What's up with the Karen hate??

[(Anonymous)]

I guess I'm a little confused. (I don't get "master manipulator" Karen, honestly, so the problem may just be that our baseline interpretations of the characters differ pretty widely?)


No, she NEEDED him to be the one to meet the woman because Karen needed BEN to be the one to print the story. She wasn't going to do it, she didn't want her past exposed, and she knew exactly what she was doing when she pushed Ben into doing what he did.

I could be remembering things wrong, but I believe that Ben Urich is the character who tells Karen that she's an incredibly unreliable witness/source because of her Mysterious Past, and there's no way that anyone will believe a story published by someone like her. (Help, kinkmeme! Did I make that scene up entirely? :P )


Matt is also given the chance to wreck himself by killing Fisk and he can't, he doesn't. He almost dies instead. When Karen is given the chance to kill Wesley, she does, no hesitation, and then she hides it.

...mmm. Agree to disagree here, please. Matt hunts Fisk down, still not entirely sure if he's going to kill him or not, and events conspire to take the decision out of his hands, right?

I mean, the timeline (watch me make an embarrassing mistake here) briefly goes A) Matt considers killing Fisk in revenge, B) Matt seeks out Vanessa Marianna, apparently to convince himself of Fisk's humanity, C) Matt gets counsel from his priest, who suggests that murder is not the answer, and Matt leaves that conversation on an ambiguous note, D) Matt attempts to track Fisk down, and we the audience still don't know what his ultimate plans are, E) Nobu ambushes Matt and starts a fight that nearly kills Matt, F) Fisk shows up, continues to beat the holy shit out of Matt, G) Matt flings himself out the window to escape his own certain death.

I don't think we ever get a definitive "Matt decides that murder is wrong" moment, or a "Matt has a realistic opportunity to kill Fisk and chooses not take it," do we?

Karen's timeline, on the other hand, goes: A) framed for murder, B) attacked and nearly killed in jail, C) attacked and nearly killed in her home, D) drugged, kidnapped, and brought to an abandoned warehouse by E) the man who's responsible for the previous attempts on her life and who immediately makes several very credible death threats against everyone she's ever known, F) Karen shoots her kidnapper to death, G) Karen does not report this act of self defense to the authorities, because she is aware that an unknown number of policemen report directly to Fisk.

Re: What's up with the Karen hate??

[(Anonymous)]

Um, if I can interject into this really interesting discussion?

Karen does not report this act of self defense to the authorities, because she is aware that an unknown number of policemen report directly to Fisk

Buuuut this doesn't explain why Karen doesn't report the 'act of self defense' in the immediate aftermath when the police force has been cleaned out and Fisk is in jail. And if she doesn't want to report her crime to the police, then it still doesn't explain why she won't tell Matt or Foggy, who are not corrupted by Fisk?

Re: What's up with the Karen hate??

[(Anonymous)]

see, that's when it gets interesting - because I think Karen makes good decisions and bad decisions, and I am generally pro-karen but that? like. I can call ~trauma~ and ~people in high stress situations sometimes work against their best interests~ and even sometimes seriously, sometimes semi-seriously, "Karen didn't report the murder because she is a Murder Spy, is why, and this is not the first time she has Murder Spy'd Someone to Death," but.

eh.

she's working with two defense attorneys who handled it the first time she was (wrongly) accused of murder, so you'd think that she'd seek them out for advice/counsel.

maybe she's trying to protect them?

maybe she feels that no judge/jury would believe her (because of that pesky "previously accused of murder, and even if the charges didn't stick, it Looks Fishy") and she's not sure if Foggy or Matt would believe that it was self-defense?

and of course the longer you stay quiet about any Big Fuck Up you've made, the harder it gets to come clean, because now instead of saying "hey, Matt, Foggy, somebody kidnapped me and threatened to kill everyone i loved and he had a gun and I grabbed it and shot him to death and booked it," she's got to say "hey...booked it, AND ALSO lied to you for (x) days"?

i'm sorry, I am just so - I am on Karen's side, which in this case mostly means "i want you to win, karen, i get why you keep making terrible choices but you gotta break the cycle, girl."