daredevilkink | Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

I JUST READ IT BUT I DON'T WANT TO SPOIL ANYTHING BUT THE LAST FEW PAGES

help

Aw man, that was painful in the best way. Not gonna lie, I was crying a little.

How'd everyone else find the final issue?

I was so damn relieved. I mean I really really REALLY hoped he'd find a way but man I was scared they'd hurt us.

Foggy's talk with Matt at the end though. God dammit these two.

Foggy is such a good friend. I mean,this whole run kinda showcased how much both men mean to one another, but this issue and that talk at the end was pretty perfect in highlighting that.

(Also, that hug? Adorable
Adorable.)

Foggy is such a good friend. I mean,this whole run kinda showcased how much both men mean to one another, but this issue and that talk at the end was pretty perfect in highlighting that.

(Also, that hug? Adorable.)

COMICS INFO - POSSIBLE SHOW SPOILERS

That was Stone (per the episode credits). In the comics, he is one of Stick's protégés, and they are in the Chaste which fights the Hand.

Foggy is a wonder, though re-reading the bit at the table when - SPOILERS - Matt-as-Ikari taunts Foggy, is Matt's whole plan for a distraction to piss Foggy off enough that he tries to do something noble but stupid? This bit just confused me a little.

+3

'Tis better to have read the first chapter and been left with a cliff-hanger than to have never seen the prompt filled at all.

All good stuff, thanks!

I'm thinking that it would be tangentially connected to the show. The timeline requires some fiddling and Matt and Frank should stumble into having children relatively early (like, Matt should be 21 at most when they have/find Lisa) which means they got together very young (duh) which is in line with Frank's story but has implications for Matt.

My original plan for the Central Park incident was that Matt survived the initial attack and the guys in charge dragged him away in a van to finish him off in private so they don't attract more attention. Being wounded with gunshots and hearing three heartbeats fading will leave a guy a mess so Matt would need the van ride to pull himself together. (Bonus: the last time Frank ever hears Matt is when Matt is screaming his name while he's dragged away! :D)

I really like your thoughts on Frank's findings, I wouldn't have thought of any of that. I also really like Frank's ultimate goal: finding out what really happened to Matt. Yeah, he's most likely dead...but how did he die? Who killed him? No one Frank interrogates can agree on who killed him, which Frank really wants to know ~~so he can pull the sumbitch's liver out~~. The only common thread is that the blind guy pulled some crazy martial arts shit and then fell into the river. NYPD trawled the Hudson six times and never found anything but by the time they got started Matt could have washed out to the Atlantic...

...and so on and on and on. In spite of everything I doubt Frank could hold on to any real solid hope for Matt's life but he can dismantle the criminal empire responsible so his spouse can rest in peace. (Hell, maybe it wasn't an accident that the Murdocks stumbled on, maybe it was a targeted hit because Matt came after them and wouldn't be bought off like all the other lawyers.) hell, that could even be the conflict between Fisk and Frank: Wilson offers to get what Frank wants and help him take revenge for his husband and children.

Now I wonder about Frank and sentimentality. Comic book Frank does his best to rid himself of sentimentality (highlighting his inexplicable affection for Matt) and he's not wasting time mourning Maria and the children. But I think the mystery surrounding Matt's disappearance would make that a lot more complicated for Frank, that he would hold on to the pain longer, that he would be plagued by that sentimentality. Not just a murder machine but sorrowful and hurting underneath it all. (More similar to Punisher MAX, though at least here he never said "I'm leaving.") So maybe it's a struggle; maybe he has problems with his resolve. Matt's ghost haunts him at every step, their babies haunt him at every step. Maybe he can't fully become the Punisher because Matt's hold on Frank Castle-Murdock is still so powerful, and Frank can't coexist with the vigilante.

But that's the part I have trouble with, trying to figure out how much of Frank's personal tragedy is on the surface and how it affects him. Losing Matt and the kids really destroys Frank but what does he become after?

Anyway, here's what I've got so far (I love writing news scripts):

"And now we present our continuing investigation into a tragedy that has taken place in the heart of our city. Sandra Rodriguez is live with the story. Sandra?"

"Thanks Alex. I'm at Central Park on this rainy night at the site of a triple homicide that took place here a month ago. Two of the victims were children along with their devoted father."

It's a sight that many New Yorkers have witnessed before: a young couple taking their children on a picnic only weeks before the start of the school year. For Frank Castle and his permanent partner Matthew Murdock, what should have been a happy morning ended in gunfire. It was the result of the police department's long-standing war against organized crime: the Rigoletto crime family chose this fateful day to execute one of their own in broad daylight for giving information to the police. According to our sources in the department, the family was not expecting the confession and responded with violent retribution, dragging the man out of a car and hanging him from a nearby lamp post. A lamp post well within line of sight of the Castle-Murdock family. According to these sources, the perpetrators noticed the parents shielding their children from the violence. They pulled weapons from their persons and opened fire.

'When we arrived at the scene the children were our first priority. Unfortunately it became clear that they had died from their wounds and we pronounced them dead at the scene.'

Their father, former Captain Frank Castle, has been hospitalized with critical injuries. Matthew Murdock, a beloved resident of Hell's Kitchen, is missing. His body was not recovered from the scene and the police are treating his disappearance as a murder investigation, not a missing person's case.

Matthew Murdock was the top graduate at his class at Columbia law school. Along with his best friend Franklin Nelson, he rejected a lucrative job offer at a prestigious law firm and founded his own start up in his old neighborhood, Hell's Kitchen, just across the river from the former home of his husband. Old friends of the couple tell us that Frank and Matthew met after the incident that changed nine-year old Matthew's life forever - when he saved an elderly man from being crushed to death by an out of control chemicals truck. He was permanently blinded by the substances leaking from the cargo and became a local legend.

'He was just in here this morning getting sandwiches for his husband and kids. I can't believe it, I just - I can't believe it.'

Matt later met Frank Castle, a boy from Brooklyn who was two years older. The two became inseparable. Matthew worked hard for scholarships that sent him to a prestigious academy in uptown New York while Frank attended the local public high school. According to the locals, Frank was Matt's fiercest protector.

'I don't think Castle would've finished school if Matt hadn't nagged him into it. Even when they were teenagers he seemed like Frank's wife. The girlfriends always ended up leaving while he stayed.'

'Yeah, I remember those two. I always caught 'em on patrol after dark. They would get busy in the back of Castle's car. They thought it was funny when I put the flashlight in the window so they never changed spots. One time Murdock refused to put his clothes back on and I had to call for back up. He was, god, sixteen.'

Matthew had plans post-graduation: he worked hard to get into a private university and law school beyond that. But Frank had other plans and joined the Marines via recruitment center the same day as his walking ceremony.

'Oh, I thought that was the end of them for sure. Matty sat in my kitchen that night and bawled his eyes out. He kept saying 'Bess, what am I gonna do?' Of course at the time Don't Ask Don't Tell was in full force so he couldn't exactly send Frankie love letters.'

But that's exactly what he did. Throughout boot camp and Frank's assignment at Quantico he sent Frank many letters and they quietly continued their relationship. No one knew what they were writing about: all of Matthew's letters were in Braille. It all halted then the President declared war on Iraq, and Castle was deployed.

'I didn't know who he was talking to at the time. I thought he had a girl at home. His hands were shakin' so bad but all he said was "they're sending me to Baghdad."'

Captain Castle served two complete tours in Iraq. His third tour in 2009 was cut short when he was shot in the neck during a heated gun battle. He was airlifted to Berlin, and then back to the States. Matthew was at his side in a matter of hours.

'And that's when Frank's CO walked in. I guess Murdock was holding his hands or something because the Colonel discharged Frank pretty quick after that, regs being what they were.'

Fortunately Castle made a complete recovery. Matthew graduated with a bachelor of arts in history. They moved in together days later. After passing the LSAT, Matthew was accepted into Columbia in 2010, while Frank drifted from job to job, struggling, as many veterans do, to reintegrate with society.

One thing I do know for sure: I want the Avengers to be involved. I think Steve is in a unique position to know exactly how Frank feels.

OP again.

I like your excerpt! :D So cute, Matt and Frank growing up together (and trolling the cops). I do wonder if the CO would actually discharge him, though--technically, if he was wounded in the line of duty, he should get an honorable discharge and a purple heart. Would he have already been discharged by the time he was convalescing back home? So it wouldn't matter if he came out at that point. I'm not sure.

As for Frank being sentimental, I agree that he would probably be on the more pragmatic side of that. He's always struck me as more likely to act than to brood, even though it might sometimes be more healthy for him to wait and work through his emotions first. (Have you read Daredevil vs. Punisher? It's got quite an interesting portrayal of Frank with respect to his reactions to tragedy and his emotional health. You can find in on Marvel Unlimited here: http://marvel.com/comics/issue/2202/daredevil_vs_punisher_2005_1) He would probably be the type to compartmentalize his grief and only deal with it when it becomes impossible to go on. (I'm imagining a situation where he gets in too deep with a mission and he's constantly distracted by visions of Matt...and then Daredevil comes to rescue him.) So, it's not so much that he's not hurting as that he doesn't allow himself to acknowledge that he's hurting.

Hm...I like the idea of Frank falling in with Fisk, but I'm not sure about whether he would be too keen on the idea of taking his help to get revenge. I've always been unclear on the nature of Frank's War: Is it to get revenge on the criminal underworld that hurt him so badly, or if he wants to protect other innocents from being hurt like he was. If it's the first, then he probably would think of Fisk no differently than he does anyone else. If it's the second, then he might think of it as an opportunity to have more resources to do what needs to be done...but also as a potential ticket to a slippery slope. I could just see Fisk knowing that Frank is dangerous and probably planning to betray him one day...and Frank knowing that Fisk knows. But they both need each other for their own reasons, and neither wants to be the one to fire the first bullet...but neither wants to be caught unprepared, either. A cold war of human proportions.

I am also down with Steve showing up. I know that in the comics, he is sometimes portrayed as being on good terms with Daredevil, but not at all with the Punisher, so I'm not sure how you could work him into Frank's support system, but I mean. I'm always down for some Captain America.

it makes sense, though. foggy's whole thing is that he's incredibly noble but sometimes has to be nudged into that role -- in this case, through proving to "ikari" that he is, in fact, a strong person. matt may be well known for being difficult but foggy is also incredibly stubborn and that's why they're such good friends -- they barely listen to anything other people tell them.

i agree, though. that finally had me tearing up and i'm so excited that waid is one of privileged few who wrote foggy as a human being with his own faults rather than comic fodder to matt's angst.

So Soule's run is going full reset AU Matt, then. This is the end of 616 Matt as we know him?

I am A-OK with that. Thank you Mark Waid for not making it angsty or tragic like another writer surely would have.

So the previously mentioned fanfiction podcast is a thing! That several anons from this meme have already been gracious enough to participate in and that will be launching soon.

The tumblr for it with more details is at otpodcast.tumblr.com. We're also on Twitter and Facebook as TheOTPodcast.

Following us shows your support and notifies you when the first episode drops plus we're sharing lots of great fanfic-related content too. :D

I love that idea and yesterday I also filled out the form...only I just noticed something: when I checked the 'when are you available?'-boxes I answered according to when I'm available in my timezone (Central European). I'm not sure where you're from but perhaps you could add a note about which timezone you're talking about in the form.

SA who only now got the e-mail that was eaten by my spam-filter and seen that you mentioned the time-zones there. Still a note on the form would probably be helpful as well.

Soule talks as if this isn't the case: "You're correct that Matt's identity is secret again -- no one knows that he and Daredevil are the same person. The how of that is a long-form story I'm planning to spin out for a while, but the why of it will be apparent pretty early on. Matt feels like he had to have both sides of his life operating independently from one another (at least publicly), and he did something to make that happen. The consequences will shake out for a while, though."

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/interview-soules-daredevil-reinvents-itself-on-the-mean-streets-of-chinatown

Ooooh. Yay to that then!

Still not sure how a guy who was disbarred as a defense attorney in the state of NY then also ens up working for the DA there. That's a lot of reset.

But we'll see.

I'm glad any drastic happened. The good guys won at the end and Fisk si once again behind bard but for how much, we dont know that.
Definetely Matt and Foggy are there for each other. That little speech Foggy gave Matt at the end was a good one. Matt needs to know that he will always have someone with him.
I mean through all this eyars Foggy has always be the one that helps Matt through everything and now he has Kirsten to help too.
I wonder if the new setting will keep the Kirsten/Matt relationship

Soule hasn't mentioned her at all. :(

I guess that with the kid he is training and being a ADA he wont have much time. I do wonder what Fioggy's role will be. Will he practice law at all in NY?

Marvel says DD is 6' and 200lbs. For anyone who draws and is familiar with anatomical proportions, the Chris Samnee version of DD is drawn a little taller, closer to 6'2" actually, and maybe a smidge over 200 lbs. Really long bones on him, but also slightly underweight for his height. That DD is a big, powerful dude.

Charlie Cox, otoh, doesn't have anywhere near the same bone structure. Shorter, more narrow ribcage, much lighter bones than comics Matt, but Charlie has more defined muscle. The show has done a really nice job of making me believe Matt can throw a mean punch, but to get the most out of that light frame, they were super smart to incorporate the parkour. I'm not sure I'd have believe Charlie capable of comics!Matt-level physicality, otherwise.

THIS. THIIIIIIS.

1) I loooooved Foggy screaming MATTTT! because the point was made that Foggy didn't have anything to lose at that point and he was being a coward, and a little of that is true. Foggy thought Matt was actually dead and Foggy was just sat there, still and quiet with his head down. Was he crying? I don't remember. But Foggy's cancer is in full remission so he really did have something to lose! His own life, and he could have stayed chill and let come what may, hope for the best, but no, he screams out for his dead partner (who, Foggy realises, isn't coming to save him for once because holy shit, MATT IS DEAD) and goes ape wild. Goddamn, I loved it.

2) I feel badly for the fen who want to read more Foggy in the comics because they're expecting him to be like the MCU Foggy, except MCU Foggy is actually the best Foggy? I'm sad there isn't more awesome Foggy out there but truth is he was written as a joke for a long time, and he rarely gets to shine on his own. As much as I love Waid's Foggy, even in the last ish Foggy was the comedic relief (and his poor eating habits- this has never not been a thing, ugh). I mean, it's obvs not going to be Matt or Kirsten. Anyway, I am glad the MCU Foggy is da best, but I'm also sad that MCU Foggy is da best. You know?

AYRT

Foggy will be in the series in a refuced role & not in the DA's office.

yeah, i suspected that, they didnt mention him being a lawyer or anything but I hope both of tehm get to practice
When does the first run of the comic come out, do you know?

AYRT

He's premiering in All-New, All-Different Marvel Point One #1 on the 7th of next month. I don't think they've announced the release date for his title.

Discussion/Off-Topic Post #1

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