daredevilkink | Prompt Post #4

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Prompt Post #4

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It already happened with Nobu, right?

I guess? I would prefer the one where it's from Matt kicking someone else off a roof or banging their head on something too hard and to acknowledge that people die from stuff like that.

I never understood why Matt gave himself a pass on that one. Must have been a weird confession.

"Forgive me Father for I have sinned. I wanted to kill a guy and then I decided to kill another guy instead and we started fighting and he went on fire and I didn't try to put him out."

"Yeah Matt, that's definitely at least manslaughter."

It is possible Noru was still alive when Matt left and he assumed Fisk and Co would help. Something Fisk says always gave me that impression. It's definitely a bit wrong of Matt to not think of this but a case could be made for him not knowing.

Yeah that really bothered me int he show, especially with the unfortunate racial connotations. Matt angsts about possibly having to kill a white man, spends a whole episode freaking out about that in fact ... but then kills an Asian man without a worry.

I always saw it as a matter of intent? There's a difference between killing in self-defence, like with Nobu, and with going out out on the streets with the clear intent to murder somebody, like with Fisk.

Morally, I was side-eyeing Matt a lot more for dropping the Russian dude off a freaking building than I was about Nobu who would and could have killed Matt had Matt nor severely incapacitated him.

It was the premeditated desire to go out and kill somebody that Matt was having a moral crisis over.

NAYRT

Yep, I read it that way too. Like, Matt and Nobu were two warriors locked in honourable battle, blah blah, and Nobu was sloppy and got himself killed.

Matt just genuinely wanted to murder Fisk.

Right, that's why I wrote manslaughter. Murder 1, in both civil law and the Catholic church (for the purposes of a mortal sin) requires intent. On the other hand you could read Matt's, "I came for Fisk but I'll take you" as intent. Certainly a court would.

THE RUSSIAN DUDE, THANK YOU

i was like. MATT. ANGRY BB. traditionally, "throwing people off a roof" is an excellent way to make them stop being alive: this is why people who want to kill themselves often throw themselves off buildings.

The russian dude, Semyon, lived and probably would have been fine eventually. It was Vladimir and Anatoly who actually kill him, THEIR OWN MAN, in the hospital later, ugh.

It was the same roof Matt was thrown off though, and obviously Matt survived. He knew that guy would live even before he paused and checked for Claire's benefit.

nayrt but welllllll, actually Matt wasn't thrown off that roof, though, was he? I thought he dragged himself away from the Russians and was hiding, because they were trying to catch him (or kill him, but Matt tells Claire 'they almost caught me' and maybe I prefer to think they wanted to put him to work as a sex slave, ahem). There are drops of blood down the alley that lead to the dumpster and more dripping from the edge of the bin, so it looks like he was on the run and found someplace to hide before he passed out. Now that I think on it, I'd like to read that AU where the Russians really do catch up to him and drag him back and put him to work. /evil

But yes, Semyon the russian is doing okay in the hospital, and is killed by his Russian bratyas.

I'm not sure Matt intended Nobu to die. Matt tried twice before to throw his sticks at Nobu and Nobu kept deflecting them and that last one when Nobu is striking out again at Matt, Matt deflects it into the light which set off sparks and then ignited Nobu. If Matt consciously planned that when he was at death's door then damn, he really kept his cool.

Also, Nobu may have actually still been alive at the time when Matt jumped out of the window because Wesley asks Fisk what to do about him and Fisk says, 'Let him burn.' I was like whut, they had a choice?

Aside, if Nobu is part of the comic assassin's guild known as The Hand, then he's not actually dead. We may see him again in S2 because The Hand will be back in greater numbers. /opinions

yes, this

at that point matt just seemed desperate to keep himself alive, he wasn't making many calculated, machiavellian moves specifically to murder Nobu, he was attempting to keep the sharp weapons out of his insides. and Nobu mostly died (maybe died) because he got up and continued to fight instead of trying literally anything to put himself out

i genuinely think matt would have tried to help put the fire out if a) he hadn't instantly gotten back up and attacked, and b) fisk hadn't walked through the door right after.

he probably didn't address feeling any guilt because of how profoundly everything fell apart for him after that, i doubt he spent any time processing it. maybe it'll get addressed next season, but until then i can see matt accidentally killing someone in the context of a fic as affecting him totally differently than the stuff with nobu did in the first season of the show.

I have to re-watch it, but I'm pretty sure Matt threw his stick at Nobu and Nobu deflected it into the light by accident. Regardless, Matt's intent was purely self-defense. I also agree that if Nobu had tried to put out the fire (drop and roll, remove his burning clothing) Matt would've tried to help him. Instead Nobu continued to attack him, which probably freaked Matt out. I think people tend to forget that Daredevil takes place in the MCU, where people with super-powers a lot more dramatic than Matt's abilities are around. Given Nobu's crazy skills and seeming imperviousness to fire, Matt can't really be blamed for not realizing/not being sure if Nobu was dead or not. Unfortunately, the show should've made that clearer i.e. when Matt was talking to Father Lantom, say something about being uncertain if he'd killed a man or say "I went out to kill one man but may have accidentally killed another" or really anything addressing/clarifying his thoughts on Nobu. I don't blame the characters, but the director/writers really slipped up.

See, I don't get this.

It was Nobu's weapon that burst the barrels, and then caused the sparks. And then Nobu was still actively trying to kill Matt while he was on fire. What exactly was Matt supposed to do to help him? By the time he stopped trying (and nearly succeeding) to kill Matt, Matt was distracted by Fisk & co.

^ EXACTLY THIS.

OK yeah that's what I thought. I think a lot of people thought Matt deflected Nobu's weapon into the lights by accident, but it was Nobu who deflected Matt's block up into the light. Matt was an accessory to Nobu's death, but he wasn't the one who killed him.

I agree. Fisk says to let Nobu burn, and then late in the season Owlsley says Nobu 'went up in smoke' which is DEFINITELY a nod at The Hand. This means Nobu reincarnated per usual (The Hand members don't die, when their body is damaged beyond repair they turn to ash and reincarnate) and he'll most likely be back next season. The show didn't want to address it because it would have been a waste of time for Matt to be all 'OH I KILLED NOBU' when there's going to be a rematch at some point.

Oh!! This makes so much sense.

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Prompt Post #4

Re: Matt accidentaly kills someone

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